Does ANYBODY here support the war?

agaypresidentin2085's picture

Just wondering if everyone on Oasis is against it. And by the way, could someone explain to me why everyone thinks Bush is after oil? My dad's a bigshot in the oil business (though I am ashamed to admit it) and he's given me some pretty good arguments why the war is not for oil.
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JB's picture

other threads

hrrrmmmm, i think you could find people's views on the POSSIBLE war with IRAQ in the numerous other threads about it here!

JB
Vice President and Drug Tzar of The Movement To Free Ommpa loompa Land From The Tyrannical Rule Of The Evil Capitalsitic Despot Willy Wonka And Associates

linds's picture

sigh.

It's unfortunate but assuming that this will be averted is incredibly unrealistic... That said, to the original poster: Ever thought that your father has a bit of a vested interest in convincing you that this isn't about oil? I mean, duh. Of course it is. If it was really about interest in developing democracy/civil liberties in the mideast, or taking out dangerous rulers, we'd be attacking Saudi Arabia. But they're Good Oil. So we're going after Saddam -- Bad Oil -- and will blow up the entire region into violence in the process.

And that's all I have to say on that.

~Linds

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Special Envoy to Tea-Drinking Nations for The Movement To Free Oompa Loompa Land From The Tyrannical Rule Of The Evil Capitalistic Despot Willy Wonka And Associates

Leisa's picture

I think

I've made my views clear.

Chief Political Right Hand Woman to Ceo, Founder and First Member of The Movement to Free Oompa Loompa Land from the Tryanicall Capitalsitic Despot Willy Wonka

jeff's picture

Can't say...

To me, the whole issue is too black and white. The people who are most vigilant against the war seem to be against all war no matter the circumstances, which I can't quite sign on with. Whereas the people who are for the war seem to have blind faith in Bush. Both sides scare me.

On another level, opposing this war seems as useful as opposing Thursday. I think it is going to happen regardless.

I also don't think of us as making the first strike. This war is very contractual. 12 years ago, Saddam got his ass kicked, and had a list of stuff he agreed to do to bring peace. He did few of them, and there is documented evidence that he has done actual research into new weapons. CNN today is reporting video of a drone plane that flies unmanned for many miles spraying chemical weapons.

As for the inspections, people are saying, look they are working. But the point of the inspections isn't supposed to be an incentive to do something, but a confirmation of compliance, which they obviously aren't. He has disarmed more in the past few weeks than in the past 12 years, only because his country is surrounded by thousands of soldiers ready to pounce.

As for the UN, they are almost about to prove their irrelevance, by rescinding their own resolution which supported the use of force if Saddam had not complied.

As for Bush, I don't think the war is solely about oil. I think it is about the economy, too, not to mention the possibility of settling his father's score. I'm not a fan of Bush, but I do think he is convinced there is a threat. He's not a good enough actor to pull this off if he wasn't sold on it. What he knows that we don't, or who is telling him what he knows and their investment in the outcome? Not sure. I know the government is already awarding contracts to American companies to rebuild Iraq after they mess it up. So, that's questionable.

All of the peace rallies are anti-Bush, but not pro-Saddam. In fact, the one I inadvertently attended seemed to be a lot of well-meaning people who have hated Bush since the Supreme Court gave him the White House. I agree with everything they say, although none of it has context.

Peace, not war. Good plan, umm, September 11?!

All the Bush/Hitler comparisons. Nice way to undermine that you really have no message but that you hate Bush

Not to mention, most people seem to like the IDEA that they were protesting the war more than being clear why they opposed it. I saw people taking their pictures in front of the Police guarding the street, like they were radicals standing up against the man. When, in fact, the cops were there to keep the street clear so they could walk down the street in protest. Digital cameras abound, and all groups segregated to show their unity, which seemed a bit odd.

I mean, why do we need lesbians against the war, and every other group? I think this was an opportunity to show that we are rising above our other issues to tackle something bigger than us. But, no, that wasn't the case. Most signs said as much about the person carrying it as it did their point about the war.

Also, in Time Magazine, soldiers in the Middle East are hearing reports about the protests and are already wondering if people are going to be spitting on them as they return home, like soldiers coming home from Vietnam experienced. While I may oppose this war, and the president, I actually never carry that down to the soldiers. i respect and admire their ability to put their country before their life and all that. I would never in a million years do it, and can barely understand it, but I'm glad they exist.

So, basically, I don't support the war. Yet, I'm not necessarily against the war. I don't support the president. I am not sure about our objectives, but supportive of the people carrying them out.

Most of all, I fear anyone who can see things in such black and white terms. I see almost all greys.

Jeff

Leisa's picture

Soldiers

I agree with you concerning the soldiers Jeff.

Chief Political Right Hand Woman to Ceo, Founder and First Member of The Movement to Free Oompa Loompa Land from the Tryanicall Capitalsitic Despot Willy Wonka

ahumancondition's picture

...

Well put.

Habit is the ballast that chains a dog to his vomit. - Samuel Beckett

jeff's picture

Also...

not sure how we can elect a gay president in 2085. It isn't an election year. :-)

jeff

agaypresidentin2085's picture

Uh...

Well, you see, the president would be elected in 2084. After some topnotch country-running he would suddenly blurt out in the state of the union address, "Hello America, I'm gay!" So you see, there will be a gay president in 2085.
Ooh! Or, the gay prez could be elected in another country...say...Indonesia, where elections are held every five years. Eh?
::Relieved that he has temporarily saved his name from looking stupid::

narconut's picture

me

I support the war, dear.

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It's enough to make you stop believing when tears come fast and furious in a town called malice!!

guideingforce's picture

Well,

I just don't feel that it's been justified. I don't like conflict, not in my life, and not in others'. And right now, I'm dealing with a lot of conflict and drama. I just don't think we absolutly need to be over there. But, me and my opinions are rather insignificant.
Two tears in a bucket, mother(beep) it.

jeff's picture

It's rather clear...

Do this or we'll have to come back and finish the job. UN agrees on this measure.

Saddam doesn't do it, in twelve long years.

So, we say, time's up. no new things need to be found. On a pure legal level, him not complying with the reason he remained in power for the past 12 years is all it needs.

I walked by a billboard today and it says "Inspections Work. War Won't."

I mean, it's short and catchy, but war is the only thing that got him to start disarming in the first place. He has always avoided proof of what he says he is doing, and it took thousands of troops lining up around his country to get him to start complying again.

So, it sounds like Saddam only responds to war. Peace is the answer if you want him to get bigger, better, and more powerful weapons.

Jeff

JB's picture

hair!

War is bad for your Hair!

JB
Vice President and Drug Tzar of The Movement To Free Ommpa loompa Land From The Tyrannical Rule Of The Evil Capitalsitic Despot Willy Wonka And Associates

jeff's picture

One other issue...

Why are so many liberals (a group I often aspire to join) so supportive of the countries in the Middle East, who commit some of the worst offenses against human rights. I mean, that whole region has a horrific track record against gays and gay tourists.

I mean, here are some links:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2826963.stm

http://www.indegayforum.org/articles/varnell97.html

Not that third world gentrification is the best way to bitchslap dark ages thinking, but...

Jeff

Leisa's picture

Can't speak for others, but

I'm definitely not in support of the middle eastern countries. I want Sadaam gone just as much as the next person, I just don't agree with the method that is being sought after to get him out.

Chief Political Right Hand Woman to Ceo, Founder and First Member of The Movement to Free Oompa Loompa Land from the Tryanicall Capitalsitic Despot Willy Wonka

linds's picture

exactly.

too many ulterior motives on the part of the Bush administration for me. I don't think Saddam's a good guy; but the way we're going in is too suspicious.

I also don't think it's our goddamn job.

~Linds

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Special Envoy to Tea-Drinking Nations for The Movement To Free Oompa Loompa Land From The Tyrannical Rule Of The Evil Capitalistic Despot Willy Wonka And Associates

jeff's picture

Who said this quote?

"What if [Saddam] fails to comply and we fail to act, or we take some ambiguous third route, which gives him yet more opportunities to develop this program of weapons of mass destruction? ... Well, he will conclude that the international community has lost its will. He will then conclude that he can go right on and do more to rebuild an arsenal of devastating destruction. And some day, some way, I guarantee you he'll use the arsenal."

Any guesses?

Zoey's picture

I am not sure where I stand o

I am not sure where I stand on the war on Iraq. I dont think that I have researched the subject enough to justify any objections I may have against the war, and I would rather not rant on about a topic that I know so little about. I did find this through one of my friends, http://www.geocities.com/chrissowens/#today Daily Reason Not to go to War , I thought it was intereasting and relavent to the subect so Im posting it.