huh?

narconut's picture

Why do we, glbt, all have to be so damn liberal?? I recommend everyone here getting their hands on Tammy Bruce's "The New Thought Police". I'm not trying to change anyone's beliefs, just broaden their knowledge. (And liberals call conservatives close-minded...sheesh!) I just want people to realize that their fighting for equal rights, not special rights. A lot of the time I get the feeling that glbt think they are better than everyone else, when we should all be equal. We are all part of the human race after all.

Thank You and Peace Out

adbak's picture

I really don't know how to ta

I really don't know how to take that all in unless you give us some examples.

jeff's picture

Yeah...

Kinda hard to keep a discussion thread moving when one of the requirements is we all go buy and read a book first.

Jeff

Zoey's picture

um..

So I'm a little confused by what you had to say because liberalism is simply wanting change, and conservatism is simply wanting things to stay the same. You seem to want change, which would make you liberal, right? The only difference you present is the differnece between what type of change.

greyboi's picture

Objection

That's the contemporary definition of "liberal" and "conservative". If you look at the history of what conservatism was, you'd find Thomas Jefferson addressing himself as a conservative when he was attacking the attempts to establish a national church. Today we would call this "liberal". It is better that we call this libertarian, also know as "classical liberal". Historically the terms conservative and liberal mean the same thing. It was a way one addressed himself or herself as a libertarian --- the belief that you can do whatever you want so long as it's legal and doesn't hurt anyone in the process. What happened was people who were influnded by Marxism started calling themselves "liberals" and people influenced by John Locke and fundamentalist Christianity started calling themselves "conservatives", in the process generating a new and skewed definition of the terms.

If you look at the ACLU's statements, you'll never find them saying they are "liberal" rather they say they are a "libertarian" organization that fights for our civil liberties by upholding the Constitution.

The ACLU is anti-gun control (Amendment 2), but at the same time it's pro- gay and women's rights (Equal Protection Clause).

metrored's picture

gay causes are ussually liberal ones

I agree that we should all be equal but historically our right to equality hasn't beed recognized by conservative America. The fight to exist makes us liberal in that respect. I've never felt the glbt community has seen its self as desiring special rights in this country. I do feel that glbt in this country have in several ways sought to build community and with it a seperate identiry from the straight mainstream and I don't see anything wrong with that. It's the right of any community (especially oppressed ones) and a right that doesn't seem to be recognized by the political right in this country. That's why I'm liberal. I don't know if it answered you comment properly but is would be nice if you elaborated more.

Jillie's picture

I want to exist, live and marry...

...instead of having the existence of homosexuals denied or danced around, denied the right to marry whomever I choose when direct questions are asked, and possibly being beaten to death because protective laws are "special rights". I have always been liberal, because it makes more sense to me. Gun control, peace, and equality are all values I've cherished. I'm not blindly liberal. I have doubts in my mind about such issues as the death penalty and abortion. Sometimes I consider becoming pro-life and pro-death penalty, in fact, but I can't realistically picture myself changing them to the right.

eTgen's picture

Liberal Conservative whatever...

I have some general theories, which I think work fairly well. First, (and I realize that perhaps I might be crucified, but oh well) the terms liberalism and conservative have changed so much over the past decade, nay, over the last 200 years, that one can hardly distinguish the two. I think of some Hegelian creature which ebbs and flows and meshes and becomes one. In minds, conservatism and liberalism are inherently flawed and are they are not killing each other, but eating at themselves. Perhaps an example. Conservatives argue that Capitalism is a good thing. The tenants of Capitalism call for world peace. Capitalism wants to see the world as free so that goods can easily be exchanged and money easily made. Going to war, then, is a bad thing for Capitalists. Yet, it is the Republicans who want a war. Furthermore, liberals are greatly influenced by Hegel and Marx, in there construct of equal society. A collective. They view society as an organic whole. But they do not see one world, nay they see several organic creatures. Hegel goes onto argue that these beasts must be in constant warfare. Thus for the liberals (or our age) war should be a good thing. But it is the liberals that are against the war.

I could go on to list more examples of the contradictions of our time, however, I shall not for my own sanity and the sanity of others.

Life is a one man show, where man is both director, actor and writer. Think for yourselves. Perhaps you will not see it my way. Good for you.

"I do not want "believers"; I think I am too sarcastic to believe in myself; I never speak to masses."
~Nietzsche

latterz,

eTgen
---
CEO, President, Founder, and First member of:

The Movement To Free Ommpa loompa Land From The Tyrannical Rule Of The Evil Capitalsitic Despot Willy Wonka And Associates

[TMTFOLLFTTROTECDWWAA]

linds's picture

watch out...

Be sure to avoid the 'Superman' complex, oh wonderful leader and CEO. A little Nietzsche for spice is fine... but combine this with Hegel (who makes me think, "master-slave dialectic! master-slave dialectic!") and we're looking at replacing a despot with a despot... doo doo doo doo (Twilight Zone music)

~Linds

-----
Special Advisor on Chocolate Issues for The Movement To Free Oompa Loompa Land From The Tyrannical Rule Of The Evil Capitalistic Despot Willy Wonka And Associates

eTgen's picture

The Superman Complex

derives from a misunderstanding of Nietzsche. Follow yourself. Be despot to your self. The superman is to have no followers, bar himself. But if I were to become master than I would simply become slave to my slave. Oh the joys of master-slave dialectic. *bouncy boucny*

In meinem Himmel gibt es keinen Gott!

latterz,

eTgen
---
CEO, President, Founder, and First member of:

The Movement To Free Ommpa loompa Land From The Tyrannical Rule Of The Evil Capitalsitic Despot Willy Wonka And Associates

[TMTFOLLFTTROTECDWWAA]

greyboi's picture

That's funny...

On the first episode of Smallville, the new young Superman series, Clark Kent bumps into Lana Lang and drops a book by Nietzsche.

:)

I didn't notice the symbolism until now.

unicornz's picture

wow

im so happy i took that philosophy course.