What is a Virgin? How do I become one?

Barralai's picture

No I'm not stupid, the first part is teh serious question, the second one (I hope) is a retorical question for the rest of you to ponder.
Now these days people say your a virgin if you havent had oral, or anal sex. And Since your gay/lesbian you cant have intercourse (physically I realize you can be, but your in bed with someone of your gender, well you know lol). So then if that is still being a virgin? What is gay sex? Can it really even happen?, and what about lesbian sex?. Discuss.

l48765's picture

oralSEX says sex.....so it is

oralSEX says sex.....so it is

buttSEX says sex.....so it is

and to be honest i think jacking a guy off is tooso that would apply to girls with fingers (so gross :p)

and i am still a virgin in all my aspects

~joe

RoaG's picture

that is not gross at all, it'

that is not gross at all, it's divine!

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ramblings of a Girl

Azul's picture

DIVINE=Of Satan! vaginas are

DIVINE=Of Satan!
vaginas are icky >.<

poissonrouges's picture

Oh I get it, you meant

Oh I get it, you meant "dicks" not "vaginas."
;)
I know there's "black sheep," but what about rainbow ones?

aviva's picture

I agree

I agree.

Signed: "You laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh because you're all the same."

"I was Kahlil Gibran."

"Well behaved women never make history."

Jopurdy's picture

I have asked many of my strai

I have asked many of my straight friends if they think oral sex is sex, and most of them don't consider it, however, if you ask most les/bi chicks if they consider oral sex--sex, they'll say "hell yah!" so i dunno. i'd like to think that oral sex isn't really sex, because then i won't feel like a whore when the time comes that i decide to do it with my gf. i don't know. i just have a difficult time thinking of having multiple partners, so i like the thought of only doing it with one person...i know, i know... good luck with that, but i am still a virgin in all aspects as well, so that's pretty good for being 18...i've held out for too long, i know. but i just can't give it up to anyone...so yeah, i'm going to go with oral sex is not sex--really. lol.

If it's a sin to love you
Then in hell i'd rather be
Opposed to living a life with people
In heaven looking down on me

miss chloe's picture

I think virginity is more men

I think virginity is more mental then physical. I mean, if someone gets raped, and they were a virgin before...mentally, they are still a virgin. i don't think it is something that can be taken from you. i thikn it is something you give to someone else. So yes, i think sex between two men or two women is just that - sex. The act of giving yourself to someone. I know my and my girl don't consider ourselves virgins.

suffragettecity's picture

virginity

Being a virgin means you haven't had physical relations with at least one other person in which the genitalia of at least one party were used.

So, if you've had or given manual, oral, vaginal or anal sex, you're not a virgin. That whole myth that "blowjobs aren't sex" is just something that some teenage kid concocted to convince him/herself that s/he could be a horndog and still remain a virgin.

"Sometimes a little brain damage helps."
-- George Carlin

Dan84's picture

"That whole myth that "blowjo

"That whole myth that "blowjobs aren't sex" is just something that some teenage kid concocted to convince him/herself that s/he could be a horndog and still remain a virgin."

Wow, I think that's it exactly! Well put!

My two cents: When I was writing my "gay" essay last term, one of the books I consulted, when discussing ages gay/bi youths had their first sexual experiences, used the term "mutual orgasm". I think that's pretty good. Whether or not you have an orgasm, you still contributed "mutually" to another person's orgasm.

In other words, jerking/getting jerked by another guy is sex. So is oral sex, for both guys and girls.

TeeAhr1's picture

In other words, jerking/getti

In other words, jerking/getting jerked by another guy is sex.

I disagree. IMO, there is a degree of vulnerability in "sex," however you choose to define it, that I don't think is there in a hand job. I would say oral counts, though. One man's opinion...
--
Re: Prairie Mafia
There is no prairie mafia.

Dan84's picture

Wondering some more...

...Does it really matter?

I mean, you'll know when you've had sex, right? From what I've read here, there are just too many diverse opinions to create one definition that will satisfy everybody.

But, to respond to what some other people have written...

Vulnerability: Yes, I'm in agreement with you there, Pete. But, I've read accounts of gay guys who say that they don't feel anal sex is sex. What?! Isn't that the one thing we can all agree on, that anal sex is definitely the de-vigrin-ifier?! That anal sex is the most intimate form of gay male sex there is? Apparently not. This guy, while still having it sometimes, feels that anal sex is more of a simple "exchange" than anything else. He claims that other forms of sex, especially oral, are much more intimate.

As for the "mutual orgasm" thing: The one person must know they are contributing to the other's orgasm. So, shooting prematurely while, say, kissing, when the other person did not expect it, does not count as sex (especially when still clothed).

Of course, the truest meaning of "mutual orgasm" suggests that both partners will contribute to the other's orgasm.

Anyway, just my thoughts. As I said above, it really doesn't matter. I suppose it comes down to that old standby, "Everybody's different!"

polybigirl's picture

Lol, there isn't a very concl

Lol, there isn't a very conclusive definition on virginity is there? My partner and I often talk of 'having sex' when that isn't what we mean, it's just we can't come up with a better term for it.

I suppose I think of sex itself in the traditional sense - the male genitalia penetrating the female counterpart. In a homosexual scenario I think sex is where this feeling is equated but - and this is the clincher - for BOTH partners simultaniously. So you experience it together as opposed to singularly. Is masturbation having sex? I don't think so. So having a partner masturbate for you isn't. Sex equals having it WITH them as opposed to in front of them. It's going the 'whole way' - doing the most it it possible to do with them.

Does that makes sense?

As a bisexual female I feel feminine with males and want to be penetrated. With females my 'phantom penis' comes into play and I want to penetrate her.

Children of a future age reading this indignant page know that in a former time love sweet love was thought a crime

- William Blake

Aedyn's picture

I'm not exactly sure where th

I'm not exactly sure where the boundaries are with sex, but I have done a few things that are sexual and I still consider myself a virgin. To me, sex implies a mutual pleasure by genetalia. So yes, butt sex is sex. But I don't think oral sex would cause you to lose your virginity. That's just how I see it. Sex to me, is more personal than that. Why do you think they have road head?

Also, the mutual orgasm theory sounds almost right to me but has it's flaws. Cause, by that theory, if a guy is making out with a (insert gender here) and prematurely cums, then by that theory, the guy has lost his virginity. The kissing caused the cumming and therefore the "mutual orgasm" was performed.

To me, that just doesn't sound right.

You can never beat time, but you can sure put up a hell of a fight.

Paladin's picture

IMO

Disagreement on what constitutes virginity reflects disagreement on what is considered the highest point in sex. A guy might think that unless he's been fucked, he is a virgin, while another guy might think that getting blown means losing virginity. That reflects their different desires in sex, possibly. Not all guys are into anal sex, but I don't think that they remain virgins all their lives just because of that.

But then couldn't a guy say "I haven't experienced the highest point in sex because I haven't met a guy who I've been deeply in love with at the time we were doing it"? I would imagine a hustler might say that. Is this definition any worse than the other definitions? I think not. You're a virgin if you think you're a virgin. You're innocent if you think you're innocent. Virginity is not lost by a physical act. It's lost by a change in thinking.

I'm sure there are lesbian comparisons to all of the above, but I really wouldn't know.

Dave

aviva's picture

I agree

I would just like to say I agree with the former poster.

'You're a virgin if you think you're a virgin. You're innocent if you think you're innocent. Virginity is not lost by a physical act. It's lost by a change in thinking.' -Paladin

Thank you.

Sorry, I'm a bit high.

Signed: "You laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh because you're all the same."

"I was Kahlil Gibran."

"Well behaved women never make history."

aviva's picture

Haha

Signed: "You laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh because you're all the same."

"I was Kahlil Gibran."

"Well behaved women never make history."

sillylove's picture

I think that when you truelly

I think that when you truelly love someone and you both "come" inside each other...in other words anal sex with your boyfriend.I think that is the extreme and i think its at that point that you truelly lose your virginity.

aviva's picture

T-R-U-L-Y

Signed: "You laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh because you're all the same."

"I was Kahlil Gibran."

"Well behaved women never make history."

starweaver's picture

Well I guess I'm just nonchal

Well I guess I'm just nonchalant about the whole idea of virginity. If it's mental, so be it. If it's physical, so be it. To be more vulgar, 'f*** virginity'. I don't swear at all, but that's probably what my head says...

Do I get to be a virgin, mommy?

whateversexual_llama's picture

Viriginty, in my book, isn't

Viriginty, in my book, isn't a physical thing. It's when you say, "I'm willing and ready to give myself completely to this person." It's letting them see all the parts of you you usually hide. It's letting go of the expectations you had and seeing the person you're with for exactly what they are. And it usually involves an orgasm.

See, we can't "Lose our virginity" the was straight people can, so I don't even think of the intercourse. For example, I was once with a chick who y'know, fingered me and all that shit. But it wasn't anything like what was described above. It wasn't real. So I'm still a virgin.

And I Have an answer to the "how do I become one," which I actually go from the crazy christian lady who came to my health class last year and talked about abstinance. Since it's a mental thing, if youdon't like where lack of virginity has taken you, go back mentally. Nobody else can tell if you've had sex. So be all mentally clensed. ((that was vague.))

Ok that's all.

Be yourself. 'Cause if you're busy being somebody else, who's gonna be you?

1stTeeka's picture

i think

you have to decide for yourself on whether or not your a virgin. i'm not, no matter how u look at it lol. my friend made a song about it. if i get her to write it down maybe i'll post it. the song is how most of my friends found out. or the first person i told went and told them, which led to them walking up to me and going "congratz!" and me going "god dammit, I'm never telling her anything again." though thats advice i prob wont listen to lol. but yeah, virginity is something you have to decided for yourself. personally i think oral makes you half a virgin lol turn it into easy fractions, then hang with enough people and no matter where you are you can claim to still be a virgin XD

**Far from a saint, not quite a sinner**

Azul's picture

American Heritage

American Heritage Dictionary...
1. The quality or condition of being a virgin.
2. The state of being pure, unsullied, or untouched.

Urban Dictionary (A wiki)
1. What women are proud to have and men are ashamed of.
Urban Dictionary is kind of... blunt, stereotypical, ect.

Wikipedia:
"Virginity is the state of being a virgin. Historically, virgin referred to a young woman with no sexual experience (see Etymology), but in modern usage, the term can apply regardless of age or gender. Both historical and modern definitions vary in regard to what kind of sexual activity or experience determines virginity, and whether it is a physical, psychological, or spiritual state."

Just thought I should show these definitions...

Lol-taire's picture

Ya, but virginity as a state

Ya, but virginity as a state is a social construct like marriage and so it's open to changing definitions or even, in theory complete abolution.

Which is what this topic is presumably about. Especially since for us homo types traditional definitions of virginity don't actually mean that much. It's like applying the rules of tennis to ice hockey.

Because, unlike say pregnancy or puberty or menopause, medically virginity doesn't exactly mean very much does it?
Nothing significant physiologically changes when penis enters vagina for the first time- especially if girl's used tampons, played sports, stuck other things up there prior to the penis.

We all know the definitions you have- so facetiously- googled. That's not what this is about.

shewillbeloved's picture

I think if you can say. "I

I think if you can say. "I had sex.."
You are not a virgin. 'PERIOD'
LOL
It shouldnt matter if you are having gay sex or straight sex.
Screw the labels. Sex is Sex. Just like. Love is Love. =]

love her purely or don't love her at all

missundastood's picture

Technical Virgin

I like what shewillbeloved said. But i have my own thoughts on this.
Im talking for the females here. We all have something called a hymen down there right? Most of my straight friends have been penetrated by the fingers of a boy.And most of them have their hymen torn.

Technically,if a girls hymen is torn,she isnt a virgin anymore.So few of my friends consider themselves a non-virgin but some just prefer calling themselves a "technical virgin".
So do i.I havnt been penetrated by a cock yet.Fingers do the deal for me. Since im bisexual,male and female fingers,both have penetrated me.But the question is,do i consider myself a virgin? I would rather stick to the term "technical virgin". but since im a bisexual girl,things do get pretty confusing for me.

But all this has got to do with stupid terms and labels. You obviously cant label love.
It shouldnt matter if you are having gay sex or straight sex.
Screw the labels. Sex is Sex. Just like. Love is Love. =]

Well said!
=)

Let's get one thing straight, I'm not.

Lyddie's picture

My friends always joke that

My friends always joke that you can always get it back by taking someone else's.

My yoga teacher in high school said everyone has this arc over them, and girls have a second one that arcs out in front of them- and it gets a little blip every time the girl has sex. In that case, the first blip on the arc equals loss of virginity, but I'm not sure about that whole concept in the first place.

I guess, for me, it's really a change of understanding that often happens surrounding a sexual experience- when you have that change, you know, and when you know, you're not a virgin anymore. Or something. That's really more just a general 'loss of innocence.' I really can't stand the whole concept of 'virginity' in the first place. I feel like it's something that makes it really easy to see sex in a negative light.

poissonrouges's picture

I'm not sure exactly what

I'm not sure exactly what the definition of virginity would be, but I think I cover pretty much all of the definitions... So, my only conclusion is: virgin, I am not.
I know there's "black sheep," but what about rainbow ones?

Azul's picture

penis goes into an orifice.

penis goes into an orifice. Virginity lost. Simple as that.

santacruz322's picture

Interesting discussion.

Interesting discussion. After scanning everyone's thoughts, I see even more now how virginity is totally unique for everyone, and really, completely ambiguous and unimportant.

When we do HIV/AIDS workshops, we define sex by body parts, not people per se. Because we are talking about all the ways people can have sex and all the ways people can pass different STD's on to each other.

Hand (manual)
Vaginal/penile
Oral
Anal

Then if any fluids are getting into your body anywhere, then you are at risk. This is important because of those straight folks (and queer folks) who think that oral sex is "safe" and not sex. They still think of sex between certain people. Its not about that, its about everyone's parts and what you can do with them :) But I know, that's not what you are talking about.

Back to the point though, who cares, because it really doesn't matter. It feels more like some kind of status symbol and frankly, that's a bunch of BS.

Project Outlet
711 Church Street
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santacruz322's picture

Wow, I just realized this

Wow, I just realized this subject was brought up in 2005, then stopped until April 2008. Is that really possible, or did something go awry? Weird.

Project Outlet
711 Church Street
Mountain View, CA 94041
650-965-2020 x22
www.projectoutlet.org
outlet@chacmv.org

jeff's picture

Happens all the time...

Someone does a search, resurrects an old message forum. The funny part is when people don't notice the date and start writing back to the original poster like this is some new issue they are having, despite it being 2-3 years old by now.

---

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