Sex with teacher

adrian's picture

So i found this rather interesting article today :

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53479

It's a list of recent cases of female teachers having sex with their students. What I found really interesting is if you reverse the sexes, it reads a lot differently, and the jail times seem insanely low.

I am not quite sure that's fair. Another thing, is that I was discussing this with a friend, and he also admits that he just WISHES his teachers were like that. I know that I, for one, still fantasize about some of my old teachers.

patnelsonchilds's picture

{INSERT SCREAM OF FRUSTRATION HERE}

This kind of thing makes me sick. I'm growing very afraid that, as a society, we're slowly beginning to believe that this is NOT a horrible betrayal of trust. Even if only in the cases of older females and younger males right now, where's the tolerance going to end? Everyone looks at it like "well what teenager wouldn't want to have sex with a hot teacher?" which is totally the wrong way to view the situation. It is the duty of teachers, coaches and other adults who work with kids to keep them safe from harm and exploitation, not to use them to satisfy their own physical and emotional needs. It doesn't matter that the kid might be horny for the teacher as well. It's a horrible message to send to him (or her) and to all the other kids who will (as they always do) find out about it.

Ok, I'm sorry to get so riled up about this, but every time one of these incidents occurs, it just makes it harder for people like us who really care about the kids we work with to convince others that we're not just out for a piece of ass. Granted it's much harder for gays anyway, but this just fosters the entire atmosphere or distrust that's slowly destroying every positive venue that's available for adults to encourage and mentor young people.

Don't get me wrong, horny teens out there. There's nothing wrong with having a crush on a teacher or any other adult. What's wrong is for them to reciprocate it. It's the same as having a crush on a straight person. The lesson you're supposed to learn in those cases is that some things are just out of bounds. You suffer for awhile, but eventually you learn ways to channel those unrequited feelings in other more positive ways.

What do you guys think? Am I totally wrong to feel this way? Are there situations in which it's okay for an adult to be in a sexual relationship with a minor? I don't mean an 18 year old college freshman and a seventeen year old high school senior. I mean like an older adult. Coincidentally, I was planning a discussion on this very topic in my forum next month. Adrian, you beat me to it! :-)

- Pat Nelson Childs
"bringing strong gay
characters to Sci-Fi & Fantasy"


www.myspace.com/patnelsonchilds

Icarus's picture

There is a dichotomy here...

yes, there is very much a double standard for teachers. ESPECIALLY if it's a female teacher with either a male student or female student....

i don't know why, but it's obviously a very scary thing, especially if you switch the sexes. if a male teacher had sex w/ a student, he'd be in jail for the rest of his natural life.

now, i'm not going to lie. i've had my share of *ahem* not so pure thoughts about my teachers, but i know it would be incredibly innappropriate (i spelled that wrong, i know it) for a teacher to have relations with a student, no matter the sex, no matter the roles. it's wrong you guys. just keep it in your heads...

there. my rambling is done.

"Yes! No! Oh, damn!"

whateversexual_llama's picture

Rape is bad...

It's not necessarily wrong to have sex with a teacher. I mean, sex really isn't a good idea, I think, if you're still that young (Unless we're talking upper high school/college) but if a teacher and a student, are... in love, I guess, then it's not a problem, if they both agree on the sex shit.

Then again, if it's rape or some other form of seduction, that's bad. I mean, duh.

My mouth just fell down a staircase. Shuttin' up.

Be yourself. Because if you're busy being someone else, then who's gonna be you?

yep_im_a_stalker's picture

Is this bad?

I saw one of the teachers and immediately thought "Omg if she was my teacher I would totally fuck her!"

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

We don't have to be stars exploding in the night
Or electric eels under the covers
We don't have to be
Anything quite so unreal
Lets just be lovers

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

patnelsonchilds's picture

I usually agree with

I usually agree with whateversexual, but not in this case. I don't think it is EVER right for a teacher and a student to have a sexual relationship, just as it is never right for a boss to have a sexual relationship with an employee. There's an automatic imbalance of power there which means that it can't be a relationship of equals. In the extremely rare instance that the teacher and student might fall in love, the teacher's responsibility is to wait until the student is older (if he or she is a minor) or at the very least no longer a student in her charge. Otherwise any moral authority the teacher has as well as fairness and impartiality goes right out the window. And it not only affects that teacher, but other teachers and other adults responsible for young people's care and education.

- Pat Nelson Childs
"bringing strong gay
characters to Sci-Fi & Fantasy"


www.myspace.com/patnelsonchilds

yep_im_a_stalker's picture

hm

you'd think that as people who are hated and treated as biological botches because of who we love, that some of us would have SOME sympathy and acceptance for this kind of thing.

I mean, in some of these cases I honestly think that the teacher and student can be in love. Aren't those who are so feverishly protesting these relationships being a bit hypocritical?

I personally don't have an issue with student/teacher relationships, of course unless it is just an abuse of power--but only as much as I would disagree with it in ANY OTHER CASE.

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

We don't have to be stars exploding in the night
Or electric eels under the covers
We don't have to be
Anything quite so unreal
Lets just be lovers

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

patnelsonchilds's picture

No I am not being

No I am not being hypocritical, not even a little bit. There's no moral equivalence between abusing the power and trust placed in you as a teacher and being in a mutually consenting sexual relationship with an equal, be it gay, straight or whatever. You said you don't have an issue with it unless it's an abuse of power. Well, as long as the teacher is still a teacher and the student is still a student, it's ALWAYS an abuse of power. You're welcome to disagree with my opinion, but I am not a hypocrite.

- Pat Nelson Childs
"bringing strong gay
characters to Sci-Fi & Fantasy"


www.myspace.com/patnelsonchilds

TeeAhr1's picture

I agree

I agree wholeheartedly. I can see a gray area if the student is not actually in the teacher's class or otherwise in their charge, but that's it. And this is coming from a guy who totally wanted to bone his freshman Journalism teacher.
---
TeeAhr1 (p. daniels) - Special Assistant To Mr. Wonka

NovaCat's picture

There was a SouthPark

There was a SouthPark episode about this . . . Kyle's little brother (a kindergartener) is having sex with his teacher, and Kyle tries to tell everyone about it, but all the men in town, including the police officers, are like, "Wow, is she hot?" "Way to go!" "I wish my female teachers had had sex with me." and so on. It's pretty funny, yet also disturbingly true. Why is it so much worse when men take advantage of people than when women take advantage of people? I understand that this is a male-dominated society, at least traditionally, but that doesn't mean it's somehow horrendous for a male teacher to have sex with a student, but only bad when a female teacher does the same thing.

Part of me wants to say that, if the student is of the age of consent, and willingly consents, then there's nothing wrong (also, there's definitely a stereotypical fantasy scenario playing in my head), but at the same time, you can't ignore that there's a huge power imbalance between the two actors, which makes for a not so healthy relationship, to say the least. ALSO, I believe teachers are expected, as a matter of policy, not to have relationships with their students; it's just verboten as part of their being teachers at any given school. I think that the number of rape/assault/harassment cases avoided because of this is much higher than the number of possible true love-type relationships that are prevented because of it. It's hot to fantasize about, but it's one of those things that really just can't end well.

haNa's picture

Male rapist = female teacher w/ student

I 100% agree with Pat. A student teacher relationship needs to be that of trust. If a student starts to feel violated, or even needed, that relationship becomes void. The teacher should be there to help and nuture the student, and the moment that relationship becomes sexual, the teacher can no longer help the student. Also, it will give the student the mentality that they will only succeced if they are sexual, and begin to see al relationships as sexual ones.

Also, because women do not really have to power to rape their abuse of power really is the equivalent to a male rapist. It is using power to get what they want.

IThis might be stange, but I have NEVER been attracted to a teacher. EVER. The thought of even being attracted to a teacher is quite repulsing. I think I've too many teachers that I've loved to... To see them as anything other than a parental figure. Also, since I have kind of a distant mother I think my feelings toward women teacher (I am a lesbian) has always been one of a mother-daughter relationship, therefore making any sexual feeling impossible.

Am I a rarity? I never thought so, but maybe I am.

NovaCat's picture

"Also, because women do not

"Also, because women do not really have to power to rape"

Wait, are you saying that women cannot commit rape? Or did I misread your post . . . because women can most definitely commit rape. I'm not sure I understand what you wrote . . .

haNa's picture

Yes, and no.

Woman can rape in some senses, but the power to forcefully rape a man is questionable. Now, undoubtably woman can force (blackmail) a man to have sex with her and that is what I talking about, and I believe that that is rape. But, it is questionable as to if a woman can force a man physically to have sex with her, as the man is the one who is required to have an erection. But, then again, some studies have indicated that men sometimes naturally respond with an erection and that it makes woman capable to rape a man.
So yes, in some senses a woman can rape a man, but it is very circumstantial.

Oh, by the way, of course a woman can rape another woman. I wan't negating that.

~haNa

NovaCat's picture

I think you're

I think you're underestimating the ability of men to get erections involuntarily and at inopportune times. A large part of what causes erections is subconscious, and it is entirely feasible for a man to get an erection, whether he is going to be raped or not (that is the silliest-sounding sentence I think I've ever written). In the case of a woman raping a man, it is much more circumstantial, as you said, but then again, a man raping a woman still needs an erection, does he not?

While, yes, an erection is required for sexual intercourse to take place, that is not the only way to commit rape. You can rape people with objects (sex toys, broom handles, what-have-you) . . . while it differs by law from state to state, in my mind, forcing someone against their will to have anal or vaginal sex is rape. Possibly oral sex too, though once again, this is all based on what you consider "sex" and, by extension, what counts as "rape".

Under Georgia law, rape is defined in such a way that is impossible for women to commit rape. It requires penetration by an actual penis (i.e. objects do not count), and thus only males can commit rape. In Georgia, anyway. The worst any woman can do is sexual assault.

haNa's picture

Again, yes and no.

I think I covered most of this in my response... But, personally, I do consider forcing anal sex is rape, but I still find it somewhat unlikely. a) men are typically stronger than women and b) woman have less drive to rape. Also, when a man has an erection is very circumstantial. Some men will have one when being 'raped' and some will not.

This is why I compared having sex with a female teacher the equivalent of a man raping a woman. It's far more likely and possible than a woman raping a man. And, it happens far more often.

As to the law, I think we all know that what the law says is often... how do I put this... Shit? No, fucked up shit. After all, it still sees us as second class citizens. And that, my friend, is fucked up shit.

~haNa

brenna0729's picture

what if..

What if the two [ teacher and student ] have some sort of relationship outside of school and keep it outside of school, does that make it alright?
If it's an actual relationship and not the teacher using their abuse of power on a gulible teenager. That doesn't seem as wrong to me just two people that have an attraction for each other.

But most of the incidents don't involve an actual relationship, just abuse of trust and power and that's not good for anyone. Male or female, the sentence should be the same: jail time as a sex offender or pedophile based upon how long it had been going on, the effects on the teen, ect ect.
Age also has a great effect on it all, younger teens are more likely to be persuaded by a trusted adult than older teens.

Ugh. The U.S is screwed up in so many ways..

TeeAhr1's picture

"What if the two [ teacher

"What if the two [ teacher and student ] have some sort of relationship outside of school and keep it outside of school, does that make it alright?"

I would say no, because it's pretty much impossible to leave something like that at the door. It will change the dynamics in the classroom despite everyone's best efforts.
---
TeeAhr1 (p. daniels) - Special Assistant To Mr. Wonka

brenna0729's picture

obtw

Interesting topic to discuss!

Kodak13's picture

"The cure is if you let in

"The cure is if you let in just a little more love
I promise you this, a little's enough" - AVA

Kodak13's picture

card

do u think its unprofesional for a teacher to send her student a christmas card...if im the only one she sends one too.....cuz well its nice and i like the attention...it kinda makes me uncomfortable

"The cure is if you let in just a little more love
I promise you this, a little's enough" - AVA

patnelsonchilds's picture

If you are the only student

If you are the only student he or she sent a card to, then yes, it is inappropriate. As long as it ends there, I'd just shrug it off, but if you receive any further unwanted attention, you are well within your rights to tell the teacher to please stop or, if you feel unable to do that, or if it persists, tell a parent, the principal or some other adult that you trust about it. You do NOT have to simply accept it.

- Pat Nelson Childs
"bringing strong gay
characters to Sci-Fi & Fantasy"


www.myspace.com/patnelsonchilds

lytnin's picture

umm...

hahh.. well . this si funny. cuz al lthe teachers in my school no i'm gay ( person that is in all my classes found out.. and dicided to yell it in the middle of each class :( ) aniways. ya.. one day.. they were lik picking on me in class. and i was just laughing. but the teacher wanted to to talk to me after school.. and ya. we were talking about it.. and well. SHE TOLD ME SHE WAS GAY !! i was like. okay. what ever.. but. then .. the next week. she wanted me to stay after class to talk to her. and she toke me out of my 5th period class all that week cuz she had a prep. and we would talk for the full hour... it was quite.. spooky and wiered.. andd i hoping. since you guys are mentioning this. she doesn't try to pull a move on me.. cuz that would be really wiered... ( even though. she isn't bad looking, for her age + she 's been to nationals for soccer... ) hehee.. dammit!! / she is kind of my soccer coach.!! ahhh. sooo grose!!

I couldn't draw a strait line even if I had a ruler!

patnelsonchilds's picture

It's possible that she's

It's possible that she's only trying to help. If she ever suggests meeting outside of school for any reason, I would tell her that her suggestion is inappropriate and that you'd prefer to quit meeting with her. In fact, if you feel uncomfortable, it's all right to do that now. If she is persistant and does not abide by whatever boundaries you set, I would tell either your parents or the principal. She may be just trying to give you some adult guidance, which is fine, but it is NEVER appropriate for a teacher to suggest meeting with a student alone away from school, or to persist in giving a student unwanted attention (well, I suppose punishment counts as unwanted attention, but you know what I mean). She should be well aware of this. So if you feel weird about the current situation, you are perfectly within your rights to explain your discomfort to her and ask that these meetings end. If the situation isn't resolved to your satisfaction, tell a parent or another adult that you trust.

- Pat Nelson Childs
"bringing strong gay
characters to Sci-Fi & Fantasy"


www.myspace.com/patnelsonchilds

jojojo's picture

my opinion

I didn't read the article now. so this is only my reaction to the comments that were written here.

I don't want to condemn any intimate student-teacher relation right away. If they are in love, and if they both truely want it, then they are in a really difficult situation. If they are in love, then they respect each other, and won't rush into something which is harmful for either of them. But maybe in some cases it will be best to allow their feelings, and to act upon them too. It depends on many things, the age of the student and the teacher, the maturity of the student (and the teacher), the nature of their feelings, how well they understand the problematic which comes with being student and teacher, and what they do and how and where and when, and the teacher-student arrangement (is it the teacher in a major subject? Is the student in danger of failing the class?), ...

What about a (graduate) university student and a university teacher? Is that just as out-lawed as in high school, according to those people who are rigorously against that?

and no, a female teacher who has sex with a consenting student does not equal a rapist. (only maybe statutory. That means that sex is by law declared to be rape.) It might be abuse of power, but to call it rape is just to belittle rape. Why can't you just say, "it is bad", without saying it is the worst possible thing on earth? Abuse of power is abuse of power. Rape is rape, a special form of abuse of power.

We have all been injured, profoundly. (Donna Haraway)
I Am Out, Therefore I Am. (Okay, mostly.)

raining men's picture

Actually

Actually I'm quite surprised. That article was from worldnetdaily and it didn't once try to make out she was a gay terrorist immigrant

"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suf-fer-ing"