Pride?

underdarkness's picture

Why do people have gay pride?

The main focus of the gay rights movement is striving for equality. The same rights, the same jobs, the same opportunities... yet, so many gay people show this sense of undeserved pride.

Why should people be proud just because they're gay?

Isn't that rather like saying, "Hey, I'm different from straight people and proud of it!"

Okay, what I am trying to say is, why should we be proud of something that we consider normal? Something that just is, something that should be accepted, something that is just... us. I am gay. I am not proud of it. I am also not ashamed of it. I am me. Personally, I feel that my homosexuality is such a small part of me that it doesn't deserve pride. It's something I was born with. I think that being proud of your sexuality brings too much personal attention to it. My sexuality is something that really doesn't matter to me. It just is. I mean, I'm not proud of other things that I was born with. I'm white. Am I proud of being white? Nope. I'm white, I don't really care. I just am.

I love myself. I have come to accept myself. I love being gay. Am I proud of it? Nope. I am just me. I think that having pride in something like sexuality is basically saying that you're better than other people because of it.

Before I ramble any more, I will end this with another question.

What do you think?

tayz's picture

Mmm...

Mmm...

I've often thought the same thing.
We aim for equality and acceptance, yet by organizing and participating in parade's we're simply alienating and secluding ourselves from the general straight public.
We're drawing focus and more attention to the things that we dont want people to make a big deal out of.

I mean, who wouldn't like everyone in the world to be okay with being gay?
Who doesn't want a world where being gay doesn't alienate you, doesn't make you feel so different from everyone else, where it's not a huge deal to people, where it doesn't make people change their opinions on you.

Yet by marching and following this esteemed gay pride, we're making a huge deal out of something that we apparently want to be accepted as just normal.
It just seems a bit hypocritical. Like.
"Don't make such a huge deal about my sexuality. It's none of your business, it doesn't affect you and it doesn't make me a different person"
But then, parading through streets with rainbow banners screaming WE'RE HERE! WE'RE QUEER! And making a huge deal, making it other peoples business.

I don't mean to sound bitter nor ashamed of being gay, or anything along those lines, it's just I agree that sometimes things don't quite add up.

I should also probably add that I sometimes wear a rainbow belt and permanently wear a "I don't even think straight!" badge on my bag.
So I guess that makes me a hypocrite too ;)

underdarkness's picture

Nice.

Thank you, you found the words that I couldn't to make this post.

Personally, I don't have a problem with rainbows and things like that. I think that's more of a representation thing than a pride thing. I have a rainbow belt and a rainbow badge on my bag, but I have those not to represent pride but for the same reason why Christians where a cross. I'm not ashamed to let people know that I'm gay. That's what real gay pride should be. Not pride in the fact, but pride in the lack of shame.

- One Nation, Under Darkness

deepspace87's picture

Im proud, but not because

Im proud, but not because im GAY, im proud of who i am. Im proud of how i treat myself, and the choices i make. being gay doenst make me proud, being me makes me proud.

"Never apologize for saying what you feel. It's like apologizing for being real."

jeff's picture

Eh...

I already weighed in on a bunch of this stuff on the "Ask A Gay man" comments, but I think the ability to question whether you should have gay pride puts you so far ahead of every generation and so far ahead of so many places around the world today, that for that reason alone, it is coming from a pure place of entitlement and privilege to be able to ask it.

Gay pride as an event happens once a year. Straight pride happens every day of every year. Every television show shows us heterosexual coupling. Every movie is will the boy get the girl? (Even if the movie is about saving the world from as asteroid, they work a love interest into the mix). The government (through tax breaks) gives straight people money to fuck (well, OK, only if it results in a kid, but still...). Heterosexuality is so talked about and brought up so constantly that there's a reason you don't think you hear about it, because it is the fabric of our culture.

Did you ever hear of someone upset that they were straight? Of course not. People are only upset by their sexuality BECAUSE the dominant heterosexual culture has made that person feel different, other, lesser. Gay pride is reclaiming your equality in a world that has not yet given it to you.

There only needs to be pride in a world that still needs an antidote for shame. And we're a long way from tipping that balance. By being from the US, young, with Internet access, and (largely) white, the Oasis membership has already won the lottery in many respects on this issue.

I don't understand when anyone didn't make a big deal about sexuality, though, heterosexual or otherwise. Look in the Sunday paper, listing after listing of straight people who are going to get married. I've had co-workers regale me about their wedding planning. And bridal showers, and bachelorette parties, and wedding receptions, and then e-mails that they're expecting, then baby showers, and on and on. So, we are a culture that endlessly talks about sexuality... it's mainly just heterosexuality. I mean, when you go to family functions, people ask newlyweds if they're going to bring a baby into the family soon, aka "You two fucking?"

So, that is equality. Equality isn't people not asking you about it. Not making a big deal out of it. That is acceptance or tolerance, and not enough. If you have a hiccup over the word "pride" in relationship to all that well, get over it, it ain't changing at this point.

But remember, it is a privilege to be able to question this from our corner of the world. These gay kids in Iran didn't have that chance:

They were publicly hanged for being gay on July 19, 2005. One was 18, the other 16 or 17 years old.
---

"Be like a postage stamp. Stick to one thing until you get there." -- Josh Billings.

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patnelsonchilds's picture

Jeff's exactly right. The

Jeff's exactly right. The gay pride movement is about letting go of shame and refusing to be marginalized. You have this movement to thank for the fact that you can no longer be jailed for being gay. It's because people got in people's faces and said "I'm Queer and proud" that there are GSAs now and politicians openly supporting civil unions (even Republican ones) and basically everything else that the up and coming gay generation takes for granted nowadays. This argument that we shouldn't be proud of being gay is just silly. Blacks can't help being black and women can't help being women either, but I've never heard anyone lately argue that a black man had no reason to be proud of being black.

My point is that these pride movements are all the same. They are about forcing the majority to recognize that we, as a group, are worthy of recognition and equality. We have as much right to take pride in our sexual orientation as we do in our race, our gender or any other part of our identity that others try and use as a means of oppression. We have the right to look back on those gays and lesbians who have made a difference in our history and culture and take pride in the fact that we can count ourselves among them.

The pride movement wasn't formed to celebrate the fact that we like people who have the same genetalia that we do. It was formed to create a sense of solidarity so that we could do battle with a society that wanted to first stamp us out, then sweep us under the rug. Most of you will never truly be able to appreciate how far we've come in the last few decades, or the price many of us have paid for these advances, but I sincerely hope that none of you are willing to be satisfied with being tolerated and accepted. That, for someone of my generation, would be a sad thing indeed.

- Pat Nelson Childs
"bringing strong gay
characters to Sci-Fi & Fantasy"
http://www.patnelsonchilds.com
http://www.amazon.com/shops/patnelsonchilds

Toph's picture

I think the pride comes in

I think the pride comes in for the fact that we embrace and love ourselves despite the setbacks that being gay brings us.

That's my small sentence of input. I don't have the brains to write a novel about it like everyone else XD

~May the spirits guide your every move...to assure you please her in all the right places XD

Riku's picture

I think, people have gay

I think, people have gay pride as a reaction to being hated and discriminated against over something they don't have any control over.

Not to mention, straight people are everywhere, most movies, tv shows, and books, are about straight people, many of them don't even aknowledge that gay people exist. It's also a lot harder to be gay than it is to be straight.

I dunno, I'm just blurting stuff out as I think it, so some of it may sound stupid...

poissonrouges's picture

great question

I agree with everything said so far.
The importance of gay pride, I believe, is to get the world acquainted with the idea that it is ok to openly admit to be GLBTQ. For so long we have been discriminated against and just kind of brushed under the social carpet for being ourselves that we have to almost reclaim our right to be human.
Not sure if that last bit makes sense...
Anyway.
I agree with underdarkness' point too. We shouldn't have to be so loud about our sexuality for people to accept it. We should have the same basic rights of everyone else because we are human(I mean, wtf, honestly).
In the future, I hope sexuality is not a factor someone is judged on. I think we'll get there one day.

I know there's "black sheep," but what about rainbow ones?

cynical1inthecorner's picture

I do not want to be

I do not want to be incredibly open about my sexuality. I don't want to announce to all my friends that I have a new crush, a new girlfriend, that I think that girl is hot or whatever. I just am not made like that--I'm a reserved, quiet person and my sexuality does not define who I am.

I am me, Cynical1, not that lesbian. I don't want to introduce myself to people as gay.

But I want that right. I want to be able to kiss my girlfriend or partner in public if I want to. I want the right--the ability--to tell people that I am gay and have them look at me without fear or disguist, for them to just nod and say "Okay."

In a perfect world, we wouldn't have to fight for that right. It'd be handed to us, like it is for heterosexuals. But the truth is, we don't live in a perfect world--no where even close.

So we do have to fight. We have to have parades and pride events, we have to wear raindbow pins and wear our "hearts"--our sexuality--on our sleeves.

Because we can't just say, "Yeah, I'm gay, whatever." Because that would be accepting all the discrimination we face and taking it lying down.

And we can't.

If not for us, then for those who follow us.

Do you really want the next generation of GLBT kids to grow up in the same world we do?

I don't. I want them to live in a world where they can mention at the dinnertable that "Hey, I might be gay," and to have their parents accept it without blinking. I don't want anyone else to go through the shit I do, and that's pretty minimal compared to what most people deal with.

And to do that, we need pride. 'Cause it's the only thing we've got.

-cough- Yeah. Sorry about that rant...especially 'cause I pretty much just said what everyone else did. -_- I'll shut up now.

dykehalo's picture

You may have said what

You may have said what everyone else said but i LOVED the way you said it. It just made soo much sense.

~~~NO DAY BUT TODAY~~~

-Ruby-'s picture

hey man

Pride to me is NOT about just being proud of being queer. its not like im going around thinking "HEY WORLD! I LIKE GIRRRLS! I AM SOOO KICK-ASS!"... Pride is about the freedom to celebrate who you are as a WHOLE PERSON, and that includes the connections that you have with others... and if you happen to have someone in your life who's the same sex as you, who you share a deep meaningful, physical, emotional & intellectual connection with... well then you're QUEER. people lable you, stereotype you, judge you, hate you... people have lost so much over this- the love of family members/friends, jobs, custody of their kids... just being unaccepted for so long. you have to not only battle the "mainstream" society, but fight this battle within yourself- before you come out, after you come out, and sometimes for the rest of your life. I dont think the pride is "undeserved" at all... i think it is VERY deserved. but being gay means different things to different people. its about dating and relationships and politics and activism and yes SEX is part of it too. sex between two women is erotic and beautiful and amazing and... basically its no more shameful than guy-girl sex. i wish it were more normalized in society. it's just a normal thing, but straight people blow it out of proportion & make it into this wild crazy kinky thing... they sensationalize it. its because we live in a male-dominated world. so many straight men dont take lesbianism seriously- they think its ALL about fucking and they just get off on that, without realizing that the emotional connection is what its really all about. its not that i think i'm superior to anyone else cuz i hook up with with girls... i mean i enjoy it, but its a personal thing. if i am dating a girl i just want to be able to be with her in public without getting stared at like a piece of meat. I dont deserve to be put at a disadvantage EVER, simply because i am into girls and not guys. i plan on being a mom someday, and i dont want my kids to grow up in a generation where they'll get judged, made fun of or rejected because they have 2 moms or whatever. so yeah... hetero people are generally considered "normal" and "natural" whereas we are considered "twisted" and "sick". thats why hetero people dont need overt pride where they say "im so proud im straight". we however, NEED to take that extra step... to over-compensate for all the ways we've been kept down, hurt and wronged in our own life times, throughout history, forever. its kinda like affirmative action... doing special things that may set us apart now, in order to help to level the playing field for future generations.

raining men's picture

Yeah

Yeah I've always had a bit of a distrust about gay pride as well. It is not something to be proud of, or ashamed of. Pride in something that is not an accomplishment is rarely good (patriotism-racism anyone?) Also it is the whole image of gay pride that off-puts so many straight people, it can appear Over-the-top and arrogant which instamtly turns them against any support for the gay movement.
There is a need to support gays and campaign for them. Put gay pride so often comes across (quite unintentionally) as being a bunch of wankers that it often does more harm than good

"Sexual intercourse began in nineteen sixty-three (which was rather too late for me)"

patnelsonchilds's picture

While I do know that people

While I do know that people often claim that this behavior is what puts them off, my feeling is that it's really just an excuse for them to voice their bigotry. I'm really not interested in being accepted "as long as I keep quiet". If my loud demands for equality offends people, well that's just tough shit. Those aren't people that are going to be on my side anyway, despite what they claim.

Are there people that push the envelope too far? Of course. But to use the behavior (or misbehavior) of a few people as a reason to condemn a whole minority? All they're doing is rationalizing their own intolerance.

- Pat Nelson Childs
"bringing strong gay
characters to Sci-Fi & Fantasy"
http://www.patnelsonchilds.com
http://www.samersguild.com

raining men's picture

Yeah

Yeah quite often but why give them an excuse? Extremeists always make something of the way NAMBLA and other idiots turn up. And even the moderates, who are still disgusted and intolerant of homosexuality, find it as a reason to moan. The less able they are to voice their intolerance by bitching about something, the oh-so harder it is to resist gay rights. But I agree simply keeping quiet is never going to do anything, but neither is full-on gay pride. There's a very fine line which no one has really found yet.

"Sexual intercourse began in nineteen sixty-three (which was rather too late for me)"

vicious vegan's picture

I've come to understand gay

I've come to understand gay pride. I'm not proud of liking girls, I'm proud of saying I like girls. I'm proud that I present myself as another human being and don't take anyone's shit for it. I'm not proud of homosexuality so much as how i treat it. I might be proud of being white or female or whatever if there was somthing to prove about it, but i don't feel like I need to stand up for that. I guess standing up is only an accomplishment if there's something pushing down.

patnelsonchilds's picture

Well said. - Pat Nelson

Well said.

- Pat Nelson Childs
"bringing strong gay
characters to Sci-Fi & Fantasy"
http://www.patnelsonchilds.com
http://www.samersguild.com

pink hair on girls's picture

i think it's not just being

i think it's not just being proud right off the bat, its more like if someone insults your gayness then you can be like, "i dont care what you say im proud of who i am" also its not like "im gay that makes me cool", its more just acceptance of yourself and thinking that being gay is totally normal. and like other ppl said, its being proud of your whole self, including your sexuality.
============================================
make love not war . . . . or be abstinent and bomb everybody!!!!

Imstillhere's picture

I agree...

With everything that has been said so I really don't know what to say except............I wonder what would happen in Straight Pride parades? I think it would be boring ;)

Toph's picture

Honestly, if straight people

Honestly, if straight people had a parade, I think they'd be aggressive. I think this because only homophobic people would do it to show their "dominance."

~May the spirits guide your every move...to assure you please her in all the right places XD

utter_insanity's picture

Ugh

I think a straight pride parade would be, in a word, hell.


"Women in rubber will ALWAYS be flirting with me!" --Maureen in the musical RENT