Mozal Tov

FearNotTheQueer's picture

Today I brought up a new question for my homophobic friends

If you're so against gay marriage does that also mean you're for a return to segregation?

I've only gotten one response and it was a sarcastic remark from one of my lesbian friends. We all know separate but "equal" worked just fine with that. I find it amusing in a way that segregation is bad but constitutional bans on marriage is perfectly okay. I'm planning a protest, I'm not sure where, I'm not sure when, most likely after the November elections just to see who is elected as President. Should the voters of California over turn the Supreme Court ruling it'll happen soon after. Anyone want to help or have any ideas? I could use them. It may seem like this is just the ramblings of a hormonal teenager, but I think the time has come for our voices and the voices of our supporters to be heard. We can't keep living like second class citizens, South Africa and Mexico allow gay marriage as a nation, not just certain sections, I want my marriage, should I choose to have one, to be legal in all parts of my country not two states. What is so wrong about gay marriage if the religious argument is thrown out? What is left to argue with?

SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!

Sometimes I hate America.....

Comments

jeff's picture

Hmm...

My understanding is that the California voters have to get enough votes to amend the state constitution to overturn this ruling, and usually adding discrimination TO a constitution, as opposed to every other case in history where we've amended it to REMOVE discrimination has met with a lot of resistance.

I don't think there's much to be done to move gay marriage along. It's a legal issue that will eventually pass. But it's not being won by activists, just lawyers. (When activists help win hearts and minds, it usually loses, as far as ballot initiatives, because you increase the number of anti-gay people who vote; whereas the people in your corner vote in the same numbers. I believe that's what happened in Hawaii, but I'm no historian). For my money, the ACLU is the best gay rights group in the country, they usually have a hand in every case like this in the country.

Most people that oppose gay marriage refuse to throw the religious argument out, so your question exists in a reality that is not our own. They are trying to make the country more religious, not less. You are arguing with people who thinks snakes can convince women to eat apples here, reality has no place.

I think we only need patience. Here's the reality: Who opposes gay marriage the most? Seniors. Who's dying next? Yup, you guessed right. Seriously, that's the gay rights movement in a nutshell. One more generation and it's over. So, work hard, put in long hours, slowly convince people, or... hang back, and just... wait... until.... it fixes.... itself.

(No senior citizens were killed in the posting of this reply, although several died naturally as I was typing it, inching us slightly closer to our goals).

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"Be like a postage stamp. Stick to one thing until you get there." -- Josh Billings.

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Azul's picture

Well, he's right about the

Well, he's right about the evolution of civil liberty. Thought the way he puts it is horrid.

Death and civil liberties should never be together...

jeff's picture

Eh...

Why put millions of dollars and thousands of hours behind something that death is sorting out for us? I say we should look to what else needs fixing, that one has an end game.

---

"Be like a postage stamp. Stick to one thing until you get there." -- Josh Billings.

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fatefellshort's picture

"When activists help win

"When activists help win hearts and minds, it usually loses, as far as ballot initiatives, because you increase the number of anti-gay people who vote; whereas the people in your corner vote in the same numbers."

That's really interesting. I never thought about it like that. Is that true for other controversial movements? It seems like it would be.
*ponders things she doesn't fully grasp*

jeff's picture

Well...

It is less about gay marriage or any other issue. It usually goes the other way, when they need conservative voters to show up, they make sure there is some hot button issue on the ballot to get them there.

Gay marriage was big last cycle, and immigration is a big one now. You need a good balance between hatred, fear, superiority, class, and religion, and when you get that right, you get people to vote in higher numbers.

"Oh, and while I'm here to make sure these brown swarthy people stop taking our jobs, I may as well vote McCain."

---

"Be like a postage stamp. Stick to one thing until you get there." -- Josh Billings.

Add me on MySpace!

Azul's picture

Five states... Three other

Five states...
Three other states observe international marriages (New York, New Mexico and Rhode Island).

Vermont was debating same sex marriage about half a year ago. It didn't go far, but the issue always come up when a new state legislature is in session.

Remember homosexuality is a crime in Saudi Arabia, Ethiopia, Egypt, Iran, India, Thailand, Niger and plenty of more places. Punishable by death or life in prison.

jeff's picture

Err...

I don't believe Thailand is correct on this list (though I'm happy to think of my time there as a law breaker). And India is certainly well above the others. So, I'd question wherever you found that list.

As for the rest, eh, I don't really think we want to focus on how we're still better than others, it's the wrong direction. That's like me going to IHOP to feel skinny because I know someone else there will always be fatter than me. It will always be true, but it's skewed logic.

Canada has gay marriage, as do 3 other countries. MANY others have country-wide state-sanctioned domestic partnership and such, so... look in the right direction, we're lagging behind much of the civilized world.

---

"Be like a postage stamp. Stick to one thing until you get there." -- Josh Billings.

Add me on MySpace!

Azul's picture

I'm underweight. I don't

I'm underweight. I don't need to go to IHOP...

But anyway, my geography skills are starting to deteriorate apparently. Thailand just happens to occupy the location to the East of Burma, not Burma itself. Making that mistake means that Burma has laws against homosexuality, not Thailand.

My geography skills are really costing me now. Forgetting East from West fucked me on that Math test. Instead of a 100, I got a 97 because I can't remember to do "Never eat Sour Watermelon".

speakpeacelovefreedom's picture

there is this book called

there is this book called "the teen guide to global action". i've never read it, but on the back cover it says that the book tells you good ways to plan protests and stuff. if you wanted to make a protest, that might be a good place to start planning or knowing how.
so...good luck. :)

Azul's picture

Protest the forced legal

Protest the forced legal discrimination in Red Cross Blood Drives. Anyone who has ever had homosexual relations (male only) is barred from donation, except when the sex occurred prior to 1977. The Red Cross has lobbied congress, trying to repeal the Blood Safety System policy, but the FDA won't allow a repeal.

Federal drug Administration and American Red Cross, Discriminating since 1977.

Or the legal discrimination in the Boy Scouts or military.

I'm gonna do one next year at my high school when recruiters come.