Hm...

TotalGeek42's picture

So today I had multiple discussions (Oddly, only one of which was started by me) on what makes you gay, bi, straight, trans, androgynous, whatever. Everybody agreed that sexual orientation was very simply something you're born with, but there was at least one person who thought that gender identity was partially environmental. I disagree with that, and I should think that it'd be even more of a birth thing than sexual orientation.

In any case, I've been talking about it so much that I wanna hear more opinions. Anybody wanna contribute to the discussion? Personal experiences, stories you've heard from other people, opinions with no real basis... anything would be awesome.

Here's the reason, other than scientific evidence, that I very strongly believe that orientation is something you're born with; one of my freinds wanted to test out whether or not it was a choice, and so for a month tried to be attracted girls. In the end, there was no way that she could make herself do it, no matter how long she tried.

As for gender identity, there's a documentary that floats around on tv channels about a guy whose parents tried to raise him a girl. When he was about 10, he told his mother that he was a boy, and that until he lived as a boy his life pretty much sucked. Seems evidence enough to me that it's not environmental.

So, as I said, please contribute to my multi-conversations. :D

Comments

Human101's picture

There was actually found to

There was actually found to be a "gay gene" in thee Y chromosome I do believe. This is why a lot of siblings, especially identical twins, tend to be gay or lesbian. Another thing that can "cause" homosexuality is the amount of testosterone and estrogen that you receive while in the womb. If your a male who receives a larger amount of estrogen, your more likely to be more feminine and gay. Same with testosterone and female babies, they'll be more likely to grow up as "tomboys" and realize their attracted to other women.

As for environment, I don't really believe any of that. There's gay kids who come out in areas that are completely homophobic, so wouldn't they hate themselves and other gays as well? Or if your parents are gay/lesbian that doesn't mean your going to be one. Sure, it means they'll be more accepting if you ever came out to them but you aren't going to be born into homosexuality.

Being gay is basically all in your genetics and hormones. A gay man or woman in a homophobic area is still a gay man or woman, and same with those born into more accepting areas.

=]

Riku's picture

Yeah, I don't think any of

Yeah, I don't think any of it is environmental. There are trans kids who pretty much "came out" as soon as they could talk. (And for the most part, the rest of us remember having been the gender we are since forever, it's not like it changed at any point in time.) And nobody in their right minds would choose to be trans. XP

And there's a good amount of scientific evidence leading to the conclusion that sexuality isn't environmental, but biological.

But honestly, I don't care too much exactly where these traits come from. Fact is, I have them now, and whether I know where they came from or not they'll still be there, so it's not worth losing my head over.

tenmilestilts's picture

It's strange seeing that you

It's strange seeing that you guys are so sure that it's genetic. Maybe it's cuz I'm bi and that's more fluid, but I feel like everyone could be bi if they had an open enough mind. I also think sexuality can be fluid, and can be affected by experiences. Eg, a girl who's been sexually abused by a male and is no longer attracted to men. Or, a guy who has been perfectly content in hetero relationships his whole life, then he falls for a guy and decides he's bi or gay. I think it's also affected by who comes into your life. Maybe you have soulmates of both genders, and it's up to you (consciously or not) to decide whether to embrace them as lovers.
...So yeah that's what I think. But I've never had a chance to explain my views or hear other queer people's, so thanks TotalGeek42 for asking!
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Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do!

TotalGeek42's picture

Actually

I've heard that scientists are pretty sure that being a lesbian is genetic, being gay is genetic, and being a bi dude is genetic, but being a bisexual girl is something that all women have the potential for. I dunno whether that's true, but it's kind of what you're saying, no?

And no problem, I enjoy asking interesting questions. No better type, in my opinion. :3

"Assets, what are our assets?"

"Well I've got a banana, and in a pinch you could put up some shelves..."

tenmilestilts's picture

strange...yeah that's sorta

strange...yeah that's sorta what i'm saying but that would be weird if that were true, that it's only bi women that "get to choose" (for lack of a better way to phrase that...)
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Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do!

Riku's picture

If being bi was about being

If being bi was about being open minded, I'd be bi. I'm totally open to the idea of dating girls but I'm just not ever interested in them. I agree that sexuality can be fluid, but it's not something most people have any sort of control over. I think most people could fall for someone that's not the gender that they're normally attracted to, but I don't think that makes them bi really. I don't think it's peoples sexuality that changes so much as their take on their own sexuality.

I still think it's biological who you're attracted to but it's a lot more complex than like, just bi gay or straight. And it's a lot more flexible than that too, but that doesn't really make everyone bi in my opinion. I don't think just being attracted to one girl ever would mean I should call myself bi.

Human101's picture

Actually, not to bring up

Actually, not to bring up science again or anything, but women usually fall for people based on personalities. I know of this one lesbian couple in which one lady is a lesbian and the other is "straight". She just fell in love with the others personality. Men being bi on the other hand had actually been shown to be nonexistant. Most "bi" males are really more attracted to other men then women at all. They still might think women are attractive and hot and all those other great adjectives, but getting physical, their more turned on by male bodies.

And by saying that we can all be gay is kind of like saying being gay is a choice. I don't know if any of us really wanted to chose a lifestyle that will get us laughed at, looked down at, criticized, beaten, and shamed. You can't force yourself to be attracted to anyone, it's there or it's not. That's why most gay people in general will at least try out the opposite sex to see if their attracted at all. I think those who have bad experiences with one gender so they go to the other one to see it it's better are lame. Like, your just playing games with everyone. No offense to any of you who are like that or anything. If your going be in a gay relationship at least consider yourself gay or something dealing with homosexuality. Don't go around just "testing the waters" or trying to catch a break from heterosexual people who like you. Tell them your not looking right now and live the single life.

TotalGeek42's picture

I have to say, I do think

I have to say, I do think that a lot of the time what Riku and Human are saying is true. I've seen a gay men take tests to see if he was even remotely attracted to women... he wasn't at all. It was done by MRI, and he didn't, when shown female bodies, have any sort of reaction to them. However, he's definitely extremely open minded, and would be up for a relationship with a woman. Also, his may be the only time I've actually seen this test, but I've heard of them with other people, as well.

Science does, however, suggest that women are different, however. Mental women, mind you, so mtfs would, supposedly, always have the potential to be bi, but ftms wouldn't.

"Assets, what are our assets?"

"Well I've got a banana, and in a pinch you could put up some shelves..."