Ah, To Be Young & Gay in New York....

ElvenKnight's picture

Ugh....

I Hate Piano Bars,
I Hate Creepy Old Men
I Hate Effeminate Gay Men

They make me feel as if living a homosexual lifestyle is a hopeless endeavor.

I've been looking up gay clubs in Manhattan which are more youth friendly. Splash has a College Night on Thursdays and Rush caters almost exclusively to an 18-29 crowd so there is a (small) glimmer of hope.

Comments

ferrets's picture

hate?

well i would just like to say that some gay guys(me included) like being efeminate, and i thought this would be the last place where i would here someone say that they hated effeminate gays...

experince the awe and mystery that reaches from the deepest inner mind to the outer limits!

ElvenKnight's picture

hate was a strong word i will admit

"They make me feel as if living a homosexual lifestyle is a hopeless endeavor."

Perhaps a more appropriate word would be " Resent"

Yes, I resent effiminate gay men.

jeff's picture

I'm stealing someone else's easy reply here...

But all gay men who hate effeminate gay men... hate themselves on some level. It's all internalized homophobia. You don't want to be part of the club if that person represents you to a lot of people by proxy.

---
"People who are happy are slugs... They do not move the human race forward."
-- Camille Paglia, on Oasis

jeff's picture

Well...

Perhaps don't go to bars that cater to older men and then accompany them to piano bars where, after bar hopping together for much of the night, they might have cause to think their sexual interest may be reciprocated and not creepy?

Otherwise, you're basically the equivalent of someone going to a bathhouse and wondering why you can't find your soulmate and everyone just seems to want just sex.

Speaking of which, you never did say... was the sex any good at least? ;-)

---
"People who are happy are slugs... They do not move the human race forward."
-- Camille Paglia, on Oasis

ElvenKnight's picture

In My Defense

Not once on either occasion did I ever give him the idea that i was interested.( although it didn't stop him from trying) I remembeed that the guy was a troll, I didn't realize that the WHOLE being nice to me bit was just a rouse. By the time we were heading to the second piano bar he realized that it was a lost cause and was cold towards me for pretty much the whole time.

jeff's picture

Heh...

If you don't let someone know you're not interested, you're sort of letting them know you are interested. Hell, I've had some times when the guy isn't my usual type, and I wasn't his, and we mentioned it... but kept making out. He jokingly said, I doubt I'll be sleeping with you tonight, and I said, we can talk about that over breakfast. And, well, we did, hehe.

Again, why bar hop twice with a troll?

I think you need to sort out the right places to go before you make grand proclamations about the bar scene. ;-)

---
"People who are happy are slugs... They do not move the human race forward."
-- Camille Paglia, on Oasis

ElvenKnight's picture

Im working on it.

Did you read the bottom half of the above entry? Here it is again......

"I've been looking up gay clubs in Manhattan which are more youth friendly. Splash has a College Night on Thursdays and Rush caters almost exclusively to an 18-29 crowd so there is a (small) glimmer of hope."

jeff's picture

Yeah...

I read it, just think it is odd to continue to then judge the night rather than accept it as a personal error.

If I, as a vegan, go to a steakhouse, I can't say the food there is terrible because they didn't have what I want.

---
"People who are happy are slugs... They do not move the human race forward."
-- Camille Paglia, on Oasis

ElvenKnight's picture

.

i never said i hate gay bars, i said specifically dislike PIANO bars.
Yes, I've made a number of rookie mistakes. I'm wiser now,
Still I think Trolls are lame. And Faeries, well they just annoy me........

ElvenKnight's picture

Speaking of internalized homophobia

"But all gay men who hate effeminate gay men... hate themselves on some level. It's all internalized homophobia. You don't want to be part of the club if that person represents you to a lot of people by proxy."

Hmm... interesting... You can say the same thing about gay men who have anal fixations...... They hate themselves for not being attracted to women so they compensate by fixating their sexual activity on a surrogate vagina

jeff's picture

Yeah...

You could say the same thing.

Wouldn't be right, but you could say it.

---
"People who are happy are slugs... They do not move the human race forward."
-- Camille Paglia, on Oasis

ElvenKnight's picture

It helps to support one's opinion with facts

Why wouldn't it be right?

jeff's picture

Well...

Why do I have the burden of supporting my opinions with facts, and you just get to make wild conjecture about things you don't know about? Seems a bit unfair.

Of course, I'm discussing things I've actually done, so that makes me a bit ahead of the curve, no?

---
"People who are happy are slugs... They do not move the human race forward."
-- Camille Paglia, on Oasis

ElvenKnight's picture

?

just to be clear, I made that remark in regards to our discussion of whether anal fixation is a product of internalized homophobia or not.
How is my sayinng so, "wild conjecture"?

jeff's picture

Because...

Only you seem to think they are connected. It really seems to make no sense.

The only connection I can see is that someone with internalized homophobia would be more predisposed to avoid anal sex. Oh, it's called anal sex, not fixation, btw.

---
"People who are happy are slugs... They do not move the human race forward."
-- Camille Paglia, on Oasis

ElvenKnight's picture

.

http://man2manalliance.org/

if you want internalized homophobia, you should check out the g0y movement

jeff's picture

heh...

If people don't want to have anal sex, they don't have to. You don't need to find a movement or come up with some theory as to why. That said, the people I know who don't like anal sex and seem to not need any theory behind it to justify it, they are just people who tried it and didn't enjoy it.

---
"People who are happy are slugs... They do not move the human race forward."
-- Camille Paglia, on Oasis

ElvenKnight's picture

Sure.

I guess its easier on everyone to just frame the issue as a matter of preference. So I take it you would not be too offended if one were to scoff " Anal sex? Hah! Do YOU really need to stick your dick into something, to feel like a man???"

jeff's picture

No...

I'm amused by stupidity, not offended.

Also, in what world is penetrative anal sex the pinnacle of masculinity?

The viewpoint from which all of this comes is completey divorced from any reality that I'm aware of.

---
"People who are happy are slugs... They do not move the human race forward."
-- Camille Paglia, on Oasis

ElvenKnight's picture

hahahahaheeha

Penetrative sex in GENERAL is the pinnacle of masculinity.......
Forgive me, but i have always been under the impression that sex is supposed to be a mutually pleasurable act. With two men, that means penis to penis with two women that means vagina to vagina
( technically some couples might consider 69ing to be the most mutually pleasurable but that is sort of irrelevant). like it or not the the anus is not a sex organ, whereas the penis and vagina are.

jeff's picture

Well...

That's your blind spot here. During anal sex, one partner isn't getting pleasure and the other is putting up with it until the other gets off. A lot of people enjoy anal sex. Hell, a lot of non-gay people enjoy anal sex. People even have dildos, vibrators, buttplugs, and other assorted things to use on themselves in lieu of another guy.

And I would argue that to limit what is used for procreation as the metric for what is sexual or erogenous is extremely faulty. Some people like nipples, asses, prostates, balls, and whatever else to be brought in as part of a sex act because it brings them pleasure. Sex is primarily used for pleasure, not procreation, so to think only these two bits are sex organs, whilst true in a biological sense, is completely untrue as far as sex as it exists. And, again, this applies to everyone and not just gay people.

So, to think the penis is the only thing that experiences pleasure is a limited view.

Plus, in a predominately heterosexual society, I don't see how it is masculine to fuck another guy. You could erroneously think the top is more masculine of the two, but in the grand scheme of things, this is pretty far down the list. Not to mention, a lot of couples are versatile anyway, so they trade off.

---
"People who are happy are slugs... They do not move the human race forward."
-- Camille Paglia, on Oasis

ElvenKnight's picture

Egality

"So, to think the penis is the only thing that experiences pleasure is a limited view."

The penis is not the only thing, but it is the KEY thing.....

"Plus, in a predominately heterosexual society, I don't see how it is masculine to fuck another guy. You could erroneously think the top is more masculine of the two, but in the grand scheme of things, this is pretty far down the list. Not to mention, a lot of couples are versatile anyway, so they trade off."

The point isn't that the top is MASCULINE, the point is that the bottom by deed is EMASCULATED.

I've been under the impression that EGALITY is central to homosexual relationships.
We seem to agree that there is nothing about anal sex which makes it a uniquely homosexual act. Women have buttholes too, women have prostates(skenes glands). What is it that interests you in performing the act with a man but not with a woman?

jeff's picture

Eh...

Emasculated bottoms is pretty old school thinking. I think you're at least 2-3 decades late with that. I'm not saying some people don't still think that, but they are a decreasing minority of people.

Why wouldn't I want to sleep with a woman? Easy. Cuz I'm gay.

---
"People who are happy are slugs... They do not move the human race forward."
-- Camille Paglia, on Oasis

ElvenKnight's picture

thanks captain obvious!

Once again, there is nothing about anal sex which makes it a uniquely homosexual act. You can sleep with whomever you choose,
If I were to get intimate with another guy, I would want to do things which remind me that the guy i'm with is indeed a guy, not things during wich I can pretend that the guy i'm with is actually a woman, or could pretend to be one myself.

jeff's picture

But...

People into anal sex don't only have anal sex. It's just on the buffet of options.

I think the issue is that you don't want to have anal sex, but need to recast it in a light for everyone else so that it makes sense for you. You'd be hard pressed to not know you're with a guy while fucking a guy, his cock beong an obvious hint. And no guy having anal sex is pretending they're a woman or wants to be one.

An academic dissertation on anal sex may be nice, but I only read travel guides from people who have been to the destination they're describing. A book called "Here's why I'm never going to Thailand..."? Not as much.

---
"People who are happy are slugs... They do not move the human race forward."
-- Camille Paglia, on Oasis

ElvenKnight's picture

/

Being that I'm young, I know that I come across as if I think I know everything, but what it comes down to is,:

Dude. Somebody has an opinion on something that is different from your own.
OMG, get over it.

jeff's picture

It comes across more like...

Someone has an opinion different than me.... let me explain to them why they're wrong.

---
"People who are happy are slugs... They do not move the human race forward."
-- Camille Paglia, on Oasis

ElvenKnight's picture

Mea Culpa

that is something that cannot always be helped.

Tophat's picture

I am...

An effeminate gay man, and I find that hatred offensive.

I am effeminate and quite productive. I am extremely intelligent (My I.Q. is on the genius level), but I simply act in a manner that is effeminate.

You discriminate and hate me on this basis?

You are no better than a racist who hates someone for being black. Or a sexist who hates someone for being female.

Disgusting.

It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed.
-Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

ElvenKnight's picture

Umm......

Your jumping in just a little too late pal

"hate was a strong word i will admit
"They make me feel as if living a homosexual lifestyle is a hopeless endeavor."

Perhaps a more appropriate word would be " Resent"

Yes, I resent effiminate gay men."

Tophat's picture

Fine then.

Simply replace everything where I said hate with resent, and my comment is relevant.

It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed.
-Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

Nanook's picture

I'm parettttyyyy sure that

I'm parettttyyyy sure that people engage in anal sex (assuming that there's absolutely no romance between the two parties), because it feels good, and mind you, only because it feels good. It's not some self-loating masculinity thing, nor is it to assert ones self as masculine. It's just because it feels good.

It actually shocks me to have realized that Margaret Sanger's plight of sexual education, even on the most basic level of why people have sex, seems to still be going....

ElvenKnight's picture

Some people find it distasteful.

Which is no reason for you or anyone to take offense

Tophat's picture

We've said it before...

And we'll say it again.

It's not that you or anyone else finds it distasteful, it's that you act like anyone with a different opinion than YOURS is wrong. We've said that exact thing about twenty times, so seriously, stop with that argument.

It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed.
-Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

ElvenKnight's picture

oh i get it

you can proseltyze all you want on gender theory,
but i'm not allowed to have a strong opinion on sexual practices?

Lol-taire's picture

You're not being persecuted,

You're not being persecuted, you're just argueing on the internet.

You can believe whatever you want to believe- but once you publicly state them you can't then embargo other people finding the flaws in your arguements.

And of course when comes to 'sexual practises'- in practise- only you know what you like or not. Which I suppose you find out with practise.

But where did you get your strong opinions on sexual practises from?

Tophat's picture

I never said that.

I said that you can have your opinions, but that you sound like your condemning anyone who has anal sex.

The situation on gender is totally different, in that I'm defending my own gender identity from you, who claims that it's not a real thing.

I allow that you have preferences, but you deny that my gender even exists. It's nothing alike.

It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed.
-Vladimir Ilyich Lenin