tired, more thoughts.

lonewolf678's picture

i don't see why it's so fashionable to hate religion. i don't understand why people often confuse myth with fact and think that all religious people are gay bashing, intolerant, republican, etc. i can admit i've been offended when i've seen hate videos made by people who hate religion. they say there is no god, stuff like that. it's not that they don't believe that bothers me but that they hate. hate is never acceptable.
if you're an atheist that's ok, it doesn't matter to me, everyone has their right to their beliefs or what have you. what i find difficult to believe (and i know this is going to be debated) is that i'm one of a few religious people who is probably more accepting than some athiests (when i mean some, i mean a few hardcore atheists on youtube). what i'm saying is that if i'm not hating you, then why do you hate me. i do not shove my beliefs down your throat, i don't convert people, i don't fund anti-gay events, i don't agree with "In God we trust" on the money or in the pledge.
i'll go into an alternate tanjent here. then there are the few who for some reason think that my whole religion is based on the text the "Holy Bible". i'm probably one of the few who even says the Bible is incomplete, and that it may very well have been edited at some points, and that my King James Version is a inaccurate translation (mainly because of a few words). anyway these few people think that people like me believe in the Bible itself. pretty funny though. :) you can't believe in a text, you believe in the God figure.
anyway another thing this time not about me or religions closely tied into mine. if some hardcore atheists are so determined that religions are wrong then say Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Taoism, etc. are wrong. that's the one flaw i find with the hardcore athiest youtube people. they seem to exclusivley pick on Christianity. i'm saying that you should be mad at Fundamentalist Christianity, not Christianity althogether. not that i'm Christian (i'm Catholic). i know this seems like hate against all atheists. but i'm only against the hate some hardcore atheists have.
i accept atheism i don't accept hate by those few (radicals i could call them, who don't represent the atheist majority) who openly mock religions just because they feel like it, and because everything that comes from their mouths has to be the only truth (self righteousness). well what are your opinions? let me know what you think of my rant. i hope i didn't offend anyone, because i really tried to get the point across that, for example "Radical" (Fundamentalist) Christians (who don't represent the Christian majority), there are "Radical" Atheists (who don't represent the atheist majority). comments are more than welcome.

Comments

Punkish Insanity's picture

You hit the nail on the

You hit the nail on the head. I don't think that anyone should be so biased as to bash on other religions because of their beliefs.

~ It's a cosmic joke that I'm a lesbian, because I understand men so well but women are a complete mystery to me.

Super Duck's picture

An atheist's viewpoint

I've been an atheist for about 4 years now. I don't hate most religious people. I hate fundies like my mother who try to force it on everyone, but I feel the same distaste for all fundies no matter what belief system they're pushing.

But being an atheist myself, I can offer some insight on your "Hardcore atheists seemingly only pick on Christians" point. In America, over 70% of the population is Christian, so it's the biggest and most prevalent religion. That also means that it has the most fundies trying to push it on people, and we get a little sick of that. If we had, say, a Muslim or Jewish majority, then I'm sure you'd find more rants against Islam or Judaism.

lonewolf678's picture

yeah,

there are definatley more rants against Islam and Judaism. it's sad though, most of the time it's Fundamentalists. :|

niks121997's picture

...

I'm of the belief that extremism of any kind is not conducive to open dialogue or flexibility. As an atheist myself, I don't categorically reject religious beliefs or tenets, but I grow cautious at rigidity and inflexibility no matter the issue. I think a lot of harm has been down in the name of firm stolid belief (religion, cultural and ethnic superiority, hegemony, what have you), and it isn't accurate or fair to point solely toward any one thing as a "cause." If that makes any sense. As I must sleep soon, my comment is short and maybe nonsensical, but I like the topic. :)

lonewolf678's picture

yes,

there definately has been alot of harm from religion in the past, like the Christians with the Crusades, or the Catholics with the Spanish Inquistion. i didn't mean to point fingers, sorry if that came across.

niks121997's picture

No...

I didn't think you were pointing fingers. My point was extremism in any form often leads to harm.

lonewolf678's picture

oh,

ok! :)

swimmerguy's picture

Oh

I hope none of this was because of my journals... If I have offended, I'm sorry.
Well, there have been both atheist and christian videos I have watched on Youtube, and most often the people who make them I really respect.
I mean, I like to think I generally am not trying to convert, but I think there is absolutely no problem if people calmly put out competing ideas, it may seem like they're trying to convert, but perhaps they're just putting out interesting ideas and seeing how the other side responds, and then hoping everyone gains knowledge out of it in that it either strengthens their beliefs or gives them ideas to ponder about them.

I've seen both christian and atheist vids, and I think neither side is trying to cause harm or strip people of their faith, they're just practicing the free flow of ideas. A mind that is the product of careful discussion by all is far healthier than an isolated one because it includes many different viewpoints.
Now, the people in the comment boxes are another story, basically all I see is "God exists! No he doesn't!" said in different combinations and with many swear words thrown in.

And Christianity is attacked in America because the atheists are attacking God, and most people who believe in God in this country are Christians, so that is the widest audience you could appeal to.

No one escapes from life alive

lonewolf678's picture

hmm?

i hardly think it's anything you did, if it was you i would have made references to a journal. if there ever was one?
anyway it's always about who's right and who's wrong. not all Christians are bad, just the Fundamentalists

625539's picture

anyone who's briefly studied

anyone who's briefly studied roman history will agree about the bible being incomplete / edited / mistranslated, everything about how the catholic church functions was chosen by a council in that era... and there's things such as finding LOADS of representations of moses with horns from a mistranslation (from halo) for example

there's been a history of corruption in the church also

on my part i never really understood religion
i do believe in god if i'm desperate enough
and i believe if there's a god it is inside us (a more satanist view, if you will)
but in my opinion it's more of a cultural phenomenon than anything else

i don't get everyone hating on each other over religion and i think we all agree discrimination is never a good thing.

"pleasure is absolute, pain is relative."

lonewolf678's picture

hmm.

yes good points. as far as it being a cultural phenomeno, i'm not certain. and true discrimination is never acceptable, just the same as Christian Fundamentalist hating Muslims, it's just wrong.

625539's picture

how is religion NOT cultural

how is religion NOT cultural phenomena?
it relates to culture no matter how you see it...

the whole concept of organized religion spawns from power (rulers wanting to justify their rule) in ancient civilizations (mesopotamia, egypt, ect.), the church is related to power (kings were also popes, often, ect.)
everything to do with organized religion is very close to rule and therefore from cultural phenomenon
power came first.

BTW i'm talking about organized religion in general, not any specifics

"pleasure is absolute, pain is relative."

lonewolf678's picture

thanks,

i actually had a momentary lapse in judgement on that one. sorry about that.

elph's picture

Yes... hate does exist...

but it is only seen or felt by those religionists who see the other as being evil or of an aberrant religion.

Hate exists only when there is a conflict of beliefs between individuals or groups holding different religious views: The different beliefs that invite animosity are frequently held by diverging sects within a single religion (distinguished by differences often no greater than whether it is "correct" to cross one's self with two or three fingers extended --- or at all!).

I question whether vitriol exists in the mind of the atheist for believers!

However, I do believe that many believers perceive that they are being hated when they see others who are not of the same persuasion as theirs... whether they be atheist or not!

lonewolf678's picture

well,

yes i know just about everyone gets hated whatever their beliefs. i never said i was the only one who was being victemized (i'm very selfish that way). it's not that i've perceived it, i've experienced it in various forms of hate not on the internet of course.

ferrets's picture

hmmmm

i always thought catholics where christians?

"A loving man and woman in a committed relationship can marry. Dogs, no matter what their relationship, are not allowed to marry. How should society treat gays and lesbians in committed relationships? As dogs or as humans?"

swimmerguy's picture

Yeah...

That's what I was thinking. There is no just "Christianity" anymore, since Martin Luther enacted the Protestant Reformation and created the Lutheran and Catholic churches, which are both still Christian... Or at least that's what I thought.

No one escapes from life alive

lonewolf678's picture

not at all,

Christians belong to Christianity,
Catholics belong to Catholicism, i used to think both were interchangable as well. :)

elph's picture

Huh?

What does this clarify?

Is this what you've been taught? :(

lonewolf678's picture

(scoffs)

well you have managed to offend me. you've just actually made me feel bad. very, very few people are capable of that.

elph's picture

Would it help...

...if you knew that this would never have been my intention?

Honestly... I truly do fail to understand why Catholics would not fall under the broad umbrella of religious beliefs commonly recognized as Christian.

Even more perplexing... were we to disagree, what would have had to happen for either of us to be justifiably offended?

lonewolf678's picture

ok.

i'm just giving up on this post.

elph's picture

Probably just as well

Still friends?

I continue to be enchanted by Weiss' sonatas...

lonewolf678's picture

ok

you would still want to be friends? of course, i would like nothing more. :)
you might like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWW8G06KyTo

elph's picture

Yeh...

I think I'd find it difficult to dislike anything written by S.L.Weiss! But think I would have preferred this performed on a lute.

lonewolf678's picture

yeah.

i suppose the Dresden doesn't do justice to the Baroque Lute. :)

lonewolf678's picture

ugh.

double post, pay no mind. nothing to see here. :) except for smiley face.

Super Duck's picture

But I thought Catholicism

But I thought Catholicism was a different branch of Christianity. I thought there were 2 main kinds: Catholic and Protestant. And then, of course, there are all the different sects of Protestantism. My history teacher is Catholic and says she's a Christian.

lonewolf678's picture

well,

it's just organization. yes Catholicism is a branch of Christianity. Catholics exist and they are classified under Catholicism. this is classification and organization. i absolutely thrive on specifics.
"One classification of Christianity divides it up into
Catholic, Protestant (Anglican, Evangelical, Baptist, Pentecostal, Lutheran, Presbyterian etc), Eastern (Orthodox),
Non Trinitarian (Jehovas Witness Later Day Saint, etc.)"

Delightfuly_Emo's picture

My mom and I were actually

My mom and I were actually having a reliogion talk last night. So it's funny that you posted this.
I stared by saying that I wished there was a religion where God wasn't shoved into your face. (Mom's an Athiest, and I was raised Jewish...but more on that later...) Anyway. My mom replied: "Yeah. It's called being an Athiest." After giving this some thought I retorted: "But then there's Bhuddism. Which is more about a way of life, than worshiping something." That made her contemplate, and eventually agree.
I guess what I'm trying to say...is that people are free to believe whatever they want to belive. I don't necessarily want other people's religoins shoved in my face, but they have the right to express what they believe.

lonewolf678's picture

yeah,

i am often faced with people shoving their beliefs in others faces (don't know if that's what i did here last night). like usually on Sundays there are little pamphlets shoved under my door, with titles like:Will this World survive?, Life in a new peaceful world, How to find the road to paradise. Jehovah Witness people, anyway i disagree with it but i just ignore it, and now i have a small and growing collection of pamphlets.
there are always going to be religions where they are forcing they're beliefs on you, but remember it's the people doing the forcing, people who usually aren't that good at following they're religion's teachings in the first place (Christian Fundamentalists usually [best example]).

funnyflyby's picture

Well, this is a lot of comments for a Non-Super Duck.

I had to check it out XD
But seriously, I was pretty much about to say exactly what Magic Fantastic did, so... notsomuch to add.
And the Catholic-Christian thing just confused me. Why, oh WHY can't everybody believe what they believe and stop organizing it in strange ways and forcing it on people and all that?
I know the answer: What people value more than pretty much anything is what they believe, and many feel the need to 'enlighten' everybody else. And when the 'enlightenment' doesn't work... the bombs start dropping and the YouTube videos start popping up.
Well, it's more complicated than that, but... close enough.
Wow.woW

lonewolf678's picture

eh,

i think i might just give on responses for this post, after all it is two days old.

MacAvity's picture

Lonewolf, I agree with you

Lonewolf, I agree with you completely. And I'm an atheist.

Really, I admire - even envy - faith. I can't believe in an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, incorporeal being, but I see something beautiful in those who do. Dogma is a different matter altogether - in my opinion, it is usually covering the insecurity a secret lack of faith.

And yes, Christianity includes all religions, including Catholicism, that hold Jesus to be the Messiah. You summed it up perfectly, earlier, with "One classification of Christianity divides it up into Catholic, Protestant (Anglican, Evangelical, Baptist, Pentecostal, Lutheran, Presbyterian etc), Eastern (Orthodox), Non Trinitarian (Jehovas Witness Later Day Saint, etc.)"

If I may show off a bit of my knowledge here (and because this is all coming from my memory, it may very well contain errors):
- Catholics are Christians who follow the Pope and have a bunch of saints
- Orthodox Christians are Christians who have a bunch of saints but do not follow the Pope. Orthodox Christianity diverged from Catholicism sometime during and somewhere within the Byzantine Empire. The two main branches are Greek and Russian.
- Protestants are Christians who have neither saints nor Pope. There are many different branches/denominations, all started by different people, all with slightly different interpretations of the Bible. Protestantism diverged from Catholicism when Martin Luther objected to some questionable practices being practiced by the Pope of the time, I want to say in the sixteenth century sometime?
- I don't know much about the other branches, such as the Latter-Day Saints... Certainly some of them have later holy texts in addition to the Bible.

lonewolf678's picture

just for clearing,

i know you took this better than some, and i was only making a point that there are many who hate. "haters gonna hate" situation i suppose. they hate: religions, ethnicities, gender orientation, culture, nationality, et cetera.
just to clear it up, i never meant all Atheists are hateful. there are just a few "radical" Atheists just as there are Fundamentalist Christians. every piece has a hateful non-associated side. i could have worded the whole journal better, now that i think of it.
your facts seem in line, i might think about getting a Minor in Theology.