Has anyone played the game Alice...?

Yamamoto's picture

Well I am going to be talking about two things today... First is game... and the second is what in my opinion is people making way to big a deal out of somthing simple.

Ok for the first thing... Has anyone played the game Alice or played the new sequal... Alice: Madness Returns... I have only played through a bit of the second and would like if anyone wants to discuss the symbolic nature of the stuff in the game becuase it is what I would call a hella trippy game. *Loves him some Chesire Cat*

The second thing is... Why do people bicth about the fact that when someone says "Thats Gay"... and they mean it as in calling it stupid. I don't get why people would bicth about this... hell I call things that all the fucking time. I don't see it has homophobic or anything. It is just a way of saying that somthing is stupid... which actually I made up as a kid... so I never learned it form anywhere else... :P If anyone wants to debate this I would like a friendly debate on the topic ethier over PMs or right here in this journal, but the instant it turns to name calling... I am just going to stop the debate.

Comments

jeff's picture

Well...

Yes, you learned to be homophobic as a kid, so a way to give stupid things a negative connotation were to call them something you thought sounded stupid, and since gay is stupid.

There's really no way to arrive at this without it having homophobic origins. Is everyone saying it now saying something homophobic? Sort of. Since they aren't challenging their vocabulary, and create negativity to the gay people they don't know are around them.

You're not really the self-love poster boy, either, so you saying something is hardly proof of it not being homophobic. ;-)

---
"Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are." - Kurt Cobain

Yamamoto's picture

Why did you respond here

Why did you respond here with that instead in the other thread... This Thread is now just for talking about Vedio games.... darn you for makign me think somone actually gave a fuck about that :P

jeff's picture

Uhh...

I figured you were going to move the discussion here when Chris told you to leave his journal, but then that didn't happen. ;-)

---
"Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are." - Kurt Cobain

funnyflyby's picture

I see it this way.

Let's use the example from Chris' journal- the car.

If you say, 'That car's so gay,' what do you mean by 'gay'? If I said 'That car's so ___' and told you to fill in any word you wanted, then you'd say 'lame' or 'awful' or something of the like. By that logic

'gay' = 'awful'.

And hey, YAMA! You're gay. Does that make you awful? If you say yes, that's homophobic. If you say no, then... hmm... you're contradicting yourself.

I don't think that any word used to describe a type of person should be used to mean something else, especially if it's with a negative implication. I'm not just talking about 'gay' or 'nigger' or whatever here.

If I say, 'My Internet is acting up. My computer is so brunette' that doesn't make any sense. Why? Because hair color isn't something that can be a characteristic of a computer. If you say that, you're implying that the negative qualities of the computer are the same as the negative qualities of a brunette.

If I say, 'That car is so gay,' that's no better. Because sexual orientation is not something that can be a characteristic of a car. If you say that, you're implying that the negative qualities of the car are the same as the negative qualities of a gay person.

In short, you're saying that gayness is just as bad as that car. Kapeesh?

Wow.woW

Yamamoto's picture

Yeah, but we are talking

Yeah, but we are talking about a car... not a person. I really don't see the connection bettewen the two. I mean if we talking about a car and just using a slang term to call it stupid. I mean it is jsut a word that is used to call a car somthing. Your still not talking about a person. So I still don't really see it has being homophobic. In my personal opinoin by you saying that when I use that slang term... that I am calling gay people awfal that is huge leap. I really don't see it... so no I don't feel like I am being called awfal by it.

To me it is all about intent in how the word is used, and also wethier someone who is aroudn you is actually offended by those words. If no one is then it really doesn't matter... but if someone is then it does matter. I mean personally I was the only gay guy among my groups of friends that I have had, and it never bothered me so we would always use that term. So I have never seen a problem with and still don't...

So actually no I am not saying that gayness is as bad as that car... I am saying that is a bad car... Your the one who is making that leap and making that connection... Kapeesh?

funnyflyby's picture

I see your point, but still disagree.

Intent does matter- and technically if nobody is offended, then it's not 'offensive', per se. But I am offended. You offended me. So now it's offensive.

Maybe it isn't what you're trying to say. But it is what you're saying. Simple logic.

If 'That car is bad' is synonymous with 'That car is gay', then 'gay' is synonymous with 'bad'. Just... logic.

Wow.woW

Yamamoto's picture

Well that is the reason I

Well that is the reason I have refrained form using it on Oasis... Becuase i know that you guys would not be happy about it. You can check my journals and if I have slipped up in any of them I am sorry :P...

Yet we are not talking about that, becuase I am still not seeing the connection that is a leap that you are making bettewen the stupid and gay thing... :P... I mean just becuase gay is being used as a slang term for stupid doesn't mean that gay is stupid.

There are lots of words that have many meanings and in truth I find defining my sexuallity by some word to be stupid in the first place, but that is just my own personal opinion. Yet it is that same opinion that allows me to be relaxed about it becuase I could care less... I mean it is just a alterate use of a word... it is not like someone has looked at me and said, "Yo Brian... your stupid becuase your gay..." Plus I mean if they called me gay and meant stupid... would I really know the differnace?... Not really :P Becuase it is whatever meaning you take out of a word that makes the word what it is...

Again refer back to the South Park episode with the bikers... who the boys where calling faggots... they where not talking about gay people... they where talking about annoying bikers :P... Even at the end all the gay people in town carrying signs saying "Get out Faggots" Forced the bikers out of town before they could hurt the boys... but still I like to think back to this epsiode when it comes to words and there usage... :P

funnyflyby's picture

You're seriously using South Park in an argument?

Wowww.

Seriously, how can you not see the connection? If the words 'gay' and 'bad' are interchangeable in the sentence 'The car is ___', they are interchangeable when saying 'Yamamoto is __' or anything else. By that logic, your gayness is the same as badness, and your badness is the same as gayness. If they're interchangeable, they're the same thing .
Let's review.

'The car is gay' = 'The car is bad'

leads to

'gay' = 'bad'

And if you're saying gay is bad, you're homophobic. Mhwhat.

Wow.woW

swimmerguy's picture

Congratulations!

I think that you're like the first ever person I've ever seen use the very correct per se. Per say kinda makes sense if you think about it, but what it is is a foreign expression, so it's spelled differently, it's spelled per se.
Good job! :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt5ghXdq6Z0&safe_search=on

ChrisH1551's picture

I'm a brunette. Q_Q xD

I'm a brunette.

Q_Q

xD

lonewolf678's picture

Yamamoto,

can't we drop this shit and let everyone get on with their internet business? It isn't really that important to stand up for saying "that's so gay" when it offends others so blatently is it?

funnyflyby's picture

The thing is...

I don't think this conversation is stressing anyone out- I'm certainly no less happy then before, just sittin' here eating my cheese popcorn. It's an interesting debate, and I like to hear other people's takes on it.

Just waiting on Shelby...

Wow.woW

Dracofangxxx's picture

Funny that you think I'd be offended by this.

It really depends on the situation for me to care. If someone's like "Holy shit man, check out that gay-ass looking candy cane" because it's rainbowy, whatever. Or if they're actually using it to describe something that's stereotypically homosexual, I laugh! I'm not perfect, my humour is dirty.

But I dunno, if I hear guys being like "God, Gavin's so gay." when they really mean that he's annoying or something, it CAN bother me. Not all the time though.
-
That's redick!

funnyflyby's picture

No, I didn't think you'd be offended!

Just that you'd add to the discussion a bit.

Wow.woW

ChrisH1551's picture

Do you actually know someone

Do you actually know someone named Gavin? I like that name. xD

funnyflyby's picture

I know two people named Gavin!

And one is gay!

Wow.woW

Dracofangxxx's picture

Yes.

That was a literal phrase of something I overheard. They were being really rude and inconsiderate, saying that he'd rape them in the asses if they ever had a sleepover.

It made me sick.
-
That's redick!

Yamamoto's picture

See now that is bad... what

See now that is bad... what I was talking about wasn't bad... :P

Yamamoto's picture

My point I have never been

My point I have never been offended by it, and have never meet someone who is offended by it. So I have never had a reason to stop saying it. You guys are people I know on the internet so our relationship is not close egough to make me want to stop saying it. Though even if I did I would only stop saying it around you guys... I mean I am not going to stop saying somthing like that permently unless I had a boyfriend who didn't like it. That is the only way I could be conviced to stop prementatly... :P

jeff's picture

Hmm...

You seem very invested in saying it, even if it might offend people. Why would it be this important? Stuff like this could turn off a potential boyfriend, because whether you believe it or not, I think using this language is internalized homophobia, so a lot of people want to date guys that are move-in ready, not fixer-uppers.

---
"Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are." - Kurt Cobain

Yamamoto's picture

I wouldn't use this around

I wouldn't use this around other gay people... that is why I have never used it on Oasis... and if they are some closet case and I don't know they are gay... well to me that is a turn off and I wouldn't want to date them anyway :P

So actually that has no affect

jeff's picture

This assumes...

You know the sexuality of everyone you come into contact with... if you meet someone new, you might toss this out before they were about to come out to you.

---
"Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are." - Kurt Cobain

Yamamoto's picture

Well jeff if that happens

Well jeff if that happens then it just means that it was never ment to be and I really could care less at that point. I mean you are making the assumption that that is going to be somthing I toss out there very earlier on in getting to know a person. Usally by the time I let someone know if I am gay if they have not told me by then... well then I just consider them a closet case or not gay and if they get turned off by my words then agian that huge turn off thing comes in... :P

funnyflyby's picture

Jeff's entire last sentence is perfect.

And yeah- For a while I deliberately avoided coming out to a friend of mind because of her frequent use of 'gay' in a derogatory manner. I don't interact with people who say that, because it bothers me.

So potential boyfriend turn-off? Definitely.

Wow.woW

Yamamoto's picture

Well jeff thinks it is

Well jeff thinks it is internalized homophobic... and I don't... so how do you know that this potential boyfriend will or will not... you are again making to many assumptions... :P

funnyflyby's picture

A grammatical misunderstanding.

I meant that it could potentially turn off a boyfriend. Not that it would turn off a potential boyfriend.

Wow.woW

Yamamoto's picture

For me... anyone who would

For me... anyone who would be turned off by this... is actually already egough to turn me off becuase I am not going to have someone around the house playing the politically correct game with me... especially becuase when I am home... wow... I am not even going to say the kind of things I say to myself in my sleep... :P

funnyflyby's picture

Fair enough.

You don't have the best priorities or judgement, in my opinion, but... who you want to date is your choice.

Wow.woW

Yamamoto's picture

Please explian that fly...

Please explian that fly... how don't I have good priorities or judgement?

Techinally I can say the same thing about you becuase you want to get rid of my right to speak my mind :( Especially sinice I take care to do it in a way that hurts no one

Before you say that it does hurt someone... guess what... you telling me to stop hurts me... So, just think about that... Which I have noticed that there is alot of refusal to do around here. :(

funnyflyby's picture

I'm just disagreeing with you. Sheesh.

Basically what I meant was that it seemed like a boyfriend should be worth getting out of the habit of saying an expression. No need to get all defensive.

Wow.woW

Yamamoto's picture

Did you read my bottom

Did you read my bottom post... I don't use the term... I am just defending my right to say 'certian' things that would be offensive to certian people, when there is no around to get offended... :P

radiosilence95's picture

Uh, about this whole "That's gay" thing...

I think that a lot of the people who use the phrase don't even realize what they're saying. The phrase has been used so frequently in society, that it's sorta contagious, and people who have no issues with gay people find themselves saying it. I used to say it every now and then, but I've stopped myself now, of course.

I mean, my friends say it occassionally, and I don't really take offense to it, because I know that they don't really have a problem with gay people, they just say it because everyone says it and that's just the first thing that comes to mind.

That doesn't necessarily excuse using the phrase, of course. I'm just saying that not everyone who says it means to lash out at gay people.

ChrisH1551's picture

It's so common usage in our

It's so common usage in our society that even I said it once. I was, like, horrified at myself using it so easily, it just slipped out like a F-Bomb would or something. I couldn't get over the fact that I used it as a derogative phrase. I don't get how Yama can use it so loosely.

Yamamoto's picture

Yeah I need to correct

Yeah I need to correct somthing so you guys don't get the wrong idea....

I haven't used 'That's gay' sinice fucking high school... :P I mean that statment it self if for childern... if I want to say somthing is stupid, then I will use the phrase... "That is fucking retarded..." Or usally somthing combined with a curse word. :) I am letting you guys know this so you don't keep getting the idea that I have a bunch of internal homophobic issues... :P I mean seriously, I got over that dumb shit two years ago. :D
If it helps we can change to a differnt term so that you guys don't keep hating me more than you already do :P

Anyway my point is that I am defending the right to use this pharse if I want to as long as I don't do it in the company of those who might be hurt by it. I don't think anyone has the fucking right to tell me what I can say at that point.

Dracofangxxx's picture

When did you last fuck High School? :O

Cause I did too and I totally got genital warts from it.
-
That's redick!

Yamamoto's picture

Dragonfang... XD I love

Dragonfang... XD

I love you... that is so funny *Huggles*

funnyflyby's picture

Really, Yamadude?

I find using 'retarded' that way much more offensive than 'gay'. Especially when combined with 'fucking'.

And whoa, how old are you, anyway?

And Shelby- LOL

Wow.woW

Yamamoto's picture

I am 21 years old... I was

I am 21 years old... I was just trying to make a point flyby... Gosh damn I hate you polictally correct idiots... I mean seriously quit trying to shove stupid stuff down my throat... :(

I am a nice guy and you make out to be a monster just becuase I don't use your vocb. I mean who really needs to work on themeselves here... I think maybe you...

And for your info I actually should be insulted by the term... 'Retarded'... yet again in this case I am not. I used to be made fun of, but at this point I have built up a thick skin... and so I laugh at most insults... maybe you should do the same. Hell so many people should do the same...

funnyflyby's picture

OOh, lookie!

I told you I'm offended by you using derogatory terms. I really need to work on myself.
That totally makes sense.

'And for your info I actually should be insulted by the term... 'Retarded'... yet again in this case I am not. I used to be made fun of, but at this point I have built up a thick skin... and so I laugh at most insults... maybe you should do the same. Hell so many people should do the same...'

Okay, so say there's a jerk who calls me a motherfucking cunt every day. At first it bothers me, but eventually I'm not bothered anymore. So now it's perfectly okay to go around calling other people motherfucking cunts?

Wow.woW

ChrisH1551's picture

I "LOLd" when you said "So

I "LOLd" when you said "So now it's perfectly okay to go around calling other people motherfucking cunts?"

Yamamoto's picture

Again your not making any

Again your not making any sense. I am not making any sense nore are you really paying attention to anything that I have been saying. I said I don't say this around anyone who would be offended... I mean seesh... :(

I am ending this right here saying that you don't have the right to tell me what I can and can't say... especially when no one is being hurt about it. So I don't see the point that you are trying to make... I mean the way your saying it is almost boarding on Thought Police type stuff... if you don't know what that is... please read the book 1984.. :P

ChrisH1551's picture

Flyby is making perfect

Flyby is making perfect sense. You just can't see past your cloud of "OMG YAMA IS PERFECT AND HIS WORLD IS OMG PERFECT AND IT DOESNT NEED CHANGING. FUCK CHIRS AND THEM."

Yamamoto's picture

Actually if what you where

Actually if what you where saying made any sense Chris... then guess what... all of my friends who don't care would think the exact same thing. My ex would have thought the same thing... and my gay friends form college would have to have been thinking the same thing... "OMG IT IS MASS DILUSION OF AN EPIC NATURE....." I mean seriously I am not that charismac... I can't influance that many people.

ChrisH1551's picture

You're not CHARISMATIC at

You're not CHARISMATIC at all.

Yamamoto's picture

Exactlly my point... :P So

Exactlly my point... :P So how could all my friends thank the same way...?

Yamamoto's picture

Exactlly my point... :P So

Exactlly my point... :P So how could all my friends thank the same way...?

ChrisH1551's picture

No, I was correcting you.

No, I was correcting you. First you spelled "Charismatic" wrong, and then you implied that you had some charisma, which you lack greatly.

Yamamoto's picture

I know exactlly what you are

I know exactlly what you are doing... I was just saying that what you saying was completely pointless.

ChrisH1551's picture

If I think it has a point,

If I think it has a point, it obviously isn't pointless. What's pointless is you carrying this arguement on when you can always just huddle back in the corner of your world and cry yourself to sleep. Or would your roomate make a big deal about it? Because then you'd have to kill him.

Yamamoto's picture

Chirs how dumb are you... it

Chirs how dumb are you... it is summer... I don't have a roommate... or are you just as blind as you are a little bicth :P