More wacked out shit

swimmerguy's picture

So, I just learned creepy shit on Morgan Freeman through the wormhole, and I want to explain it on here, so maybe I'll understand it a bit better, if you guys wanna read, that's fine.

I just learned that the way we see reality is only one way to see it. Our three dimensional way of looking at things is only one way to describe the reality we see. But there are actually 2 ways.

This comes from a huge debate in physics started by a guy I can't remember, and Stephen Hawking.
It started about black holes.
Stephen Hawking said black holes violate one of the most fundamental laws of science, the Law of Conservation of Information. That's a law because, if, for example, you took a sink full of water, and then put drops of food coloring in it, in a pattern of Morse code, spelling out, banana for example, that information will never be lost.
Because, even if, after an hour, all the food coloring gets diffused through the sink of water, and it seems impossible to figure out what the original Morse code message was, it is indeed possible, even if we can't possibly ever do it as humans, if you look at the position and the velocity of every single molecule, you would be able to extrapolate backwards until you got the original drops of food coloring, and therefore, the message.

So the Information in the system, however scrambled it may be, is technically never, ever lost. It's always possible to get back, even if we'd never have the technology to do so.

But Hawking said the Information would be lost in a black hole.
This is because black holes, even though people like to think of them sucking everything in and letting nothing out, they do let some things out.
That's because, in space, constantly, all over the place, opposite particles well up, and then annihilate themselves an instant later. This happens because the time they're around for is so short that because of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, you'd never be able to observe them, really, and so they're around for such a short time they basically go unnoticed by reality, they're called virtual particles.

One of the parts of a black hole is the Event Horizon, which is the exact sphere surrounding the hole where, once something, even light, enters it, it's impossible to escape it, no matter how fast you go.
But if these opposite particles well up right on the very edge of the Event Horizon, one of the opposite particles will be sucked into the black hole, while the other will escape into space.
This is called Hawking Radiation, and it's why black holes will eventually die.

So when a black hole sucks up something, Hawking said, it will release the Hawking Radiation equivalent to that objects mass, but the information in it will be lost forever, because there's no connection between the Event Horizon and the inside of a black hole.

But this other guy, who I'll call Guy, cause I can't remember his name, said that wasn't so.
He at first couldn't figure out why, but he knew that black holes couldn't violate the Law of Conservation of Information, and for a decade he tried to discount Hawking's theory.
And eventually he found a way, but it requires looking at reality in a different way than we usually do.

The idea comes from a thought experiment involving some people named Alice and Bob, and a black hole.
They're orbiting a black hole, when all of a sudden Alice decides to jump into it. After that one thing happens.
How that event is observed by Alice is she falls right through the Event Horizon, falls into the middle of the black hole and is utterly crushed and annihilated, and her mass is added to that of the black hole.
But Bob sees it totally differently.
Bob sees her, because of Einstein's General Theory of Relativity, the black hole warps both space and time in a way so that Bob sees Alice approach the event horizon but slow down slower and slower, taking an infinite amount of time to get to the event horizon, eventually effectively stopping.
So both of those views are representations of the same event, Alice falling into the black hole.

But what the fuck?! Alice sees herself crushed and destroyed, Bob sees her freeze in time at the Event Horizon.

So then our good friend Guy solves this paradox for us. He says that matter is like an airplane propeller.
When the propeller is spinning really, really fast, all you'll see is the central hub. You won't see the blades at all.
But if you have a sufficiently fast camera, if you take a picture of the propeller, you'll see the blades.
Particles are like that, they're moving so incredibly fast, that you can only see bits of them at a time. But if you are sufficiently quick, you can see more of the particle, and then more of it, and then it gets bigger and bigger until theoretically it takes up the whole universe.
So, really, particles are like a propeller that then has a propeller on the end of each blade, and a propeller on the end of each of the blades of those propellers, and more and more propellers on the ends of those propellers.
When this massive propeller, which he calls a String Theory Propeller, is spinning really, really fast, all you'll see is the middle hub of the central propeller. But slow it down a little, and you'll see the blades of it too. And slow it a little more, and you'll see the other propellers on the end of each of those blades, and then more and more propellers, and the more you slow this String Theory Propeller, the bigger it appears to get.

So, back to the thought experiment, this time Alice flies an airplane with a String Theory Propeller into the black hole, seeing only the central hub of her Propeller. And the same thing happens to her, except that her plane is then crushed as well.

But Bob sees something completely different. He sees the plane slow down slower and slower, and so then he can see the blades of the central Propeller, and then he can see the other propellers on the ends of that one, and more and more propellers, and the closer Alice gets to the Event Horizon, the larger her plane appears to get, until it eventually covers the entire Event Horizon. And those are both different interpretations of the same event.

And through this, our good friend guy shows that Alice's information is not lost.
But what he also shows is more important.
He shows that any event that happens at a black hole has 2 interpretations you can draw from the same event, both the 3 dimensional one, where Alice falls into the black hole and dies, and another, 2 dimensional one, where Alice is projected 2 dimensionally on the surface of the black hole.

And that means that, by extension, anything that happens in the universe, in 3 dimensions, it also happens in another interpretation at the very edge of the universe, projected 2 dimensionally at the very edge of the universe, billions of light years away.

And so that shows that our usual 3 dimensional way of looking at the world is only one way of looking at it, everything that happens here also happens 2 dimensionally at the edge of the universe.

Weird shit, man.
And so, what if, like, our 3 dimensional view of the world is just another way of looking at the universe that's actually 4 dimensional or something?
Weird ass shit.

Anyway, I kinda understand it better now, good night guys.


elph's picture


You have attained an unusually high level of appreciation of current thoughts in cosmology.... especially for a HS sophomore!

If you haven't already done so... you may want to take a look at any of the recent books by Brian Greene (e.g., The Elegant Universe; The Fabric of the Cosmos).

The classic seminal work on Black Holes is Black Holes & Time Warps - Einstein's Outrageous Legacy by Kip S. Thorne (1994). Quite readable, and written for non-specialists!


Suggested temporary diversion: Maybe it would prove instructive to speculate on the "care and treatment" of the libidinal turmoil that can afflict gay teens.

You could use yourself as a "case study." :)

elph's picture

Oh... and by the way...

Where did you pick up that perverse spelling?

Try whacked! :) + :)

elph's picture


...I know... at least, I do now. Sorry!

Couldn't you tell that I was just playing... and not at all trying to come off officious? :(

socialist's picture

I love dimensions.

We are actually inside the 4th dimension, which is inside the 5th dimension, which is inside the 6th dimension, etc., bt it is impossible to move between them.
We see things like planes in the 3rd dimension, so organisms in the second dimension (which are invisible to us) see in 1st dimension, a line, and 1st-dimensional organisms see nothing at all. However, we have no idea what a 4th-dimensional organism would see because they see in the 3rd dimension, which is incomprehendable to us.
We have no idea what the 4th dimension would be like and it is impossible to point in the direction that we would move to get there. Like if an organism from the 2nd dimension entered the 3rd dimension (hypothetically) and returned, it would be impossible to point in the direction it went (up, down, etc.) because it would be impossible to perceive, as it sees only a line with absolutely no width at all (which is also impossible for us to comprehend). Same concept here. We don't know what this new direction is and we cannot travel in it.
However, there are prejections. A shadow of a 3-dimensional object is its projection on a plane (2-dimensional world). A cube projected on the second dimension is a square. We do have a projection of a tesseract, a 4th-dimensional cube. This is what its "shadow" looks like:

Of course, we can't imagine what it actually looks like, but only its projection.
Again, we are in the 4th dimension just like 2nd dimensions (planes) infinitely exist in any given amount of space here, going all possible 3-dimensional directions, which is infinite, and infinite lines exist in those planes. There are infinite 3rd dimensions inside any given space in a 4th dimenion, going all possible 4th-dimensional directions, which we cannot comprehend. Same for all dimensions, and it goes on forever.

Crazy stuff right there.

socialist's picture

I forgot to mention:

since organisms in the 4th dimension see in the 3rd dimension, they would see 3-dimensional objects from all sides and angles at the same time without moving. Try picturing that.

funnyflyby's picture

Things like this are so amazing...

Just sitting there and working through it all in your mind is simply the coolest experience ever.

socialist's picture


The coolest experiences ever are:
1. Traveling to a past life
2. Getting high
3. Meditation

Yours was pretty cool, though.

elph's picture


...gotten high, traveled to the past? Simultaneously?

But... surely this list is incomplete?

socialist's picture

I have

Traveled to a past life for a few minutes via a hypnotherapy video by Steve G. Jones:

And I get natural highs a lot. I have meditated on my third eye and had a very short vision.

crazypickle's picture

Based on this post, you

Based on this post, you might like the show "Sliders." It's on netflix, I believe. It is early 90's, so you have to excuse the bad hair and clothing, but the science that it is based on might interest you.