The Dinner Table Debate

jeff's picture

I didn't watch this yet, btu I love Dan, so I'm sure it will be interesting...

Brian Brown, President of the National Organization for Marriage, and Dan Savage, writer of the Savage Love column, met at Savage's home in Seattle for dinner and a debate over same-sex marriage and the Bible.

Here it is:

elph's picture

And to further open your eyes to the scourge of NOM...

...you should also wade through this quagmire of Brian Brown's commentary on the interview:

http://www.nomblog.com/27438/

And then, here's The Huffington Post's assessment:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/24/brian-brown-dan-savage-dinner-t...

:(

radiosilence95's picture

Well I'm sure it would be a

Well I'm sure it would be a very interesting video to watch, but honestly I'm so tired of hearing all of the arguments and the debates about gay marriage and hearing this idiot blather on and on about Jesus and keeping families pure will only frustrate me.

jeff's picture

Well...

It is a LOT of that, so I can't say you'd miss much if you skipped it, assuming you know NOM is evil already...

---
"You can judge the whole world on the sparkle that you think it lacks" - Dawes, When My Time Comes (http://youtu.be/Z0FrcTX6hWI)

Tycoondashkid's picture

they are both assholes really

since NOM is just well NOM and Dan Savage unless you are Gay, White, Cis Male he hates you

radiosilence95's picture

You seem to have quite the ill feelings towards Savage.

What evidence do you have to support any of that?

Tycoondashkid's picture

despite the fact he says shit about everybody?

and he makes hate speech against Bi, Trans, Feminine Gays and basically anyone who isn't like him?

Dan Savage (founder of the “It Gets Better” project) is a perfect example of the whole “LGBT pride so long as you’re only a white cisman and nothing else” community.

Here are a few of the things he’s done:

-------------

He has called trans* people “trannies” and “shemales”, as well as told a parent they were selfish for not waiting until their child has graduated from high school to have their sex-change operation.

1) Column: Bad Tranny.

Dan Savage responds to a single parent who recently found out their ex partner is a transwoman. His use of the word tranny is only the tip of the iceberg.

The tranny activists are going to jump down my throat for this, but… it seems to me that your ex could’ve put off the sex change until after his son was out of high school.
Perhaps I’m a transphobic bigot, but I honestly think waiting a measly 36 months to cut your dick is a sacrifice any father should be willing to make for his 15-year-old son. Call me old-fashioned.
Unfortunately, your ex wasn’t willing to make that sacrifice (selfish tranny!), or it never occurred to him to make that sacrifice (stupid tranny!).
I hope that in the long run your son eventually accepts his dad/mom/whatever and forgives his dad/ mom/whatever for being imperfect
When your son is an adult, he’ll hopefully be able to forgive his dad/mom/whatever for his selfish decision to run off and have a sex-change operation …

2) Column: Deep Love.

Dan Savage responds to a man who had sex with a transwoman prostitute.

“…going down on a shemale escort shores up your heterosexual bona fides. Gay guys don’t frequent and/or fellate shemale escorts (on purpose or by accident); getting with shemales is an entirely straight-male pursuit.”
Of course you aren’t totally straight—try thinking of yourself as something more than straight, not less—but you’re close enough that you can round yourself down to straight with a clear conscience. (Offer void the day you start blowing hemale escorts.)
3) Transgendered Washington State Attorney General Rob McKenna Betrays His Community

Dan Savage falsely labels Washington State Attorney Rob McKenna as a transgender man as a “joke”. No evidence exists of Rob McKenna being transgender.

It’s staggering that Rob McKenna, a female-to-male transsexual, is making it harder for other FTMs (and MTFs) to access the life savng sex-reassignment surgery that allowed Rob to become the man he is today. Rob had the resources to finance his own sex-reassigment surgery—presumably—but that doesn’t excuse Rob’s cruel disregard for his low-income transgendered brothers and sisters or his making common cause with anti-trans bigots in states like Virginia and Mississippi.
At the bottom of the page Dan Savage writes

This is a joke, obviously. Rob McKenna is not transgender. Follow the link for more.
A joke? Really? After getting called out for this insulting bullshit Savage writes this in a later article about a trans student:

He has attacked a rape survivor over her relationship with her husband

http://www.womanist-musings.com/2010/11/dan-savage-attacks-rape-survivor...
----------------
Savage falsely labeled Washington State Attorney Rob Mckenna as transgender as a joke(?)

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2010/03/23/transgendered-washi...
----------------

He has stated that “avoiding bi guys is a good rule of thumb for gay men looking for long-term relationships.”

http://www.afterelton.com/oysters-04-28-2011-dan-savage-biphobic
-------------

jeff's picture

Well...

Nearly all of those quotes are out of context, which is why all of them are linkes to blogs/articles by people who have negative opinions about Savage and not to Savage's columns/podcasts so people can make up their own minds.

Not to mention, his column is meant to be humorous and typically these quotes are meant to be ironic or funny, until they are quoted verbatim by the humorless.

But since it's potentially out of context quotes, no need to comment further.

Plus, he is sort of a feminine gay.

---
"You can judge the whole world on the sparkle that you think it lacks" - Dawes, When My Time Comes (http://youtu.be/Z0FrcTX6hWI)

jeff's picture

Hmm...

Here's an article that tried to find the anti-trans stuff people keep pinning on him, and comes up empty:

http://gay.americablog.com/2011/11/transcript-shows-trans-activist-stopp...

The activists objected that he repeated an offensive term "shemale" when repeating a question into the mic? Cisser, please.

---
"You can judge the whole world on the sparkle that you think it lacks" - Dawes, When My Time Comes (http://youtu.be/Z0FrcTX6hWI)

Tycoondashkid's picture

Jeff, seriously

you say i use a blog post with a bad opinions on him while you link a blog post with a wrong opinion

jeff's picture

Well...

I've listened to Dan long enough to know the points you're making do not sound like his advice, at all. What I linked to did show what the trans activists accused him of, and the transcript of the exchange, which was very different and actually trans supportive.

Plus, I linked to an article on a site where they publish pro-gay news articles, either writing them or linking to them, not personal opinion blogs, and in the article someone tried to find the anti-trans stuff Dan is accused of saying, and couldn't, so I fail to see how that isn't relevant.

Especially since it repeats one of the examples you give, which is that he says shemales to refer to trans women. In the article I linked to, it shows he repeated it because it was in the question he was asked to answer at an event, and then even said it's not the best term to use.

So, I don't find them to be the same, although if you put blogs up as proof that Dan is bad, you really lose any footing to say a blog post is a weak rebuttal, no? ;-)

You're allowed to say you don't like Dan Savage, of course. I just think all of your reasons are invalid.

I couldn't find, and didn't look very hard, the thing about not dating bisexuals, but I recall that being another case of someone who is gay saying they can't be comfortable dating bi guys in long term relationships, so his advice was if you want a long term relationship with a guy, don't date bi guys, then. So was it advice for all gays? No. It was advice to that one guy, or at best, all gay men who have an issue with bi guys, who had no plans to update their thinking, that they should just avoid bi guys to avoid their own issues. That's hardly anti-bi. If he told racist gays to avoid dating black gay guys, it wouldn't be racist, either. It would be him giving advice *to* racists.

Right now, I know he gets a lot of criticism from lesbians because he answers questions from lesbians who enjoy occasional sex with men, but identify as lesbians. So, the criticism from the lesbians is that he is answering questions from people they don't consider lesbians, but the lesbians who go for the occasional cock do identify as lesbians. So, it's an interesting topic, but does that show Savage is anti-lesbian? You can certainly find stuff online making that leap. I don't buy it, though.

Feel free to hate Dan, but your proof is most likely on shaky ground, since you are getting it second hand, from people who dislike him and take his comments out of context or from people with a history of having no humor (aka lesbians).

Unless you're reading his weekly syndicated column, Savage Love (http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=14526575), or listening to his Savage Lovecast (which is what I do, available at the same link), then most of the stuff you are getting should be approached cautiously, wondering about the intention of the person writing it.

---
"You can judge the whole world on the sparkle that you think it lacks" - Dawes, When My Time Comes (http://youtu.be/Z0FrcTX6hWI)

jeff's picture

Also...

Here is something you can't take issue with, Dan Savage explaining the issue himself:

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/11/15/on-glitter-transpho...

---
"You can judge the whole world on the sparkle that you think it lacks" - Dawes, When My Time Comes (http://youtu.be/Z0FrcTX6hWI)

Tycoondashkid's picture

sorry Jeff can't take it seriously

cause its a blog site actually the SAME SITE I LINKED YOU TO

Afterelton is a pro-gay site.

Dan said that all bi people should just date one another because they would be unfaithful to any monosexual partner, he said that TO EVERYONE, Jeff

jeff's picture

Well...

The Stranger is a pretty common site to get info about Dan Savage, since Savage is the editorial director of The Stranger, an alternative weekly in Seattle. ;-)

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Page?oid=21244

Interesting that many of the blogs you link to were written in the last year, but all of their proof about his comments are from the late 90s. Perhaps he, like many people, evolved their thinking over time? If I were writing an article about his biphobia in 2011, I would try to find the latest example, rather than something he said more than a decade ago, but don't actually link to, so we have to accept the context as presented by the author.

Also, AfterElton is pretty sloppy to make this claim: "He declined to respond to the questions I sent, which I take to mean he stands by his record." How does one indicate the other?!

I'd recommend subscribing to his podcast, it is way more fun than the humorless out of context rehashings.

---
"You can judge the whole world on the sparkle that you think it lacks" - Dawes, When My Time Comes (http://youtu.be/Z0FrcTX6hWI)

Tycoondashkid's picture

id rather

eat a headgehog while its alive than sub to him

elph's picture

OK... I'm beginning to suspect...

that you may not like Dan Savage! Maybe?

Is there an LGBT commentator/supporter that you do like?

Tycoondashkid's picture

yes

ones that do work for the community not just one part of it and run alot of the other ones into the ground

jeff's picture

So...

More like the real Dan Savage instead of the one you've constructed without actually reading or listening to him? ;-)

---
"You can judge the whole world on the sparkle that you think it lacks" - Dawes, When My Time Comes (http://youtu.be/Z0FrcTX6hWI)

Tycoondashkid's picture

no

someone who Dan Savage can never be

elph's picture

A bit disingenuous... no?

Was it not obvious that a name would have been appreciated? :)

Tycoondashkid's picture

it means a crap ton of people

-

elph's picture

OK! Truce...

Next topic.

Tycoondashkid's picture

and that topic is?

-

elph's picture

Whatever

:)

Tycoondashkid's picture

umm i have nothinh :(

-