I've been in better situations than this.

anarchist's picture

Yakow is spending as much time as he possibly can with his girlfriend. And that means that he's spending significantly less time with me, which makes me kind of sad. It's like all his other friends are just worthless now that he has a girlfriend he likes. It isn't easy finding times when the two of us can actually talk now. When we're alone I can tell he still likes me as much as he always has, but whenever he's in conversation with other people, something always feels different about him, something I can't really describe. It's like something's changed. Interestingly, this strange atmosphere is the weakest when he's with his girlfriend, since he occasionally includes me somewhat into the conversation (though only when she brings me up; apparently he talks about me with her). For some reason, he just can't have a conversation with more than one person at a time, and I don't get why he's incapable of doing so. Sorry about this journal being so irrelevant to the theme of the web site, I feel like I'm losing my best friend right now and it sucks.

Comments

jeff's picture

Well...

Since he's your gay crush, I'm not sure how it is off topic.

Beyond that, this is pretty normal. Some people really focus on their relationship above all other social connections, others maintain a balance. I have friends where I'd see them every weekend and them crashing at my place every weekend when single, and then switch to every 3-4 months when they are dating someone. So, if he's one of the people who disappear, nothing you can do about it, really.

The real thing is to widen the social circle, of course. You can't put all of your social life eggs in the Yakow's basket, especially if he isn't going to let you put your eggs in his basket at some point.

---
"You don't know you're beautiful." - Harry Styles

anarchist's picture

You think you're funny, don't you?

This journal is more about him as a friend than a crush, though. Even if my feelings for him were all platonic, I'd still be sad about this. I'm glad he still likes me, but I keep getting disappointed by other factors. Somehow, though, I still feel like I have a chance with him, and I don't really know what is making me feel that way, whether it's delusion or hope. It sucks that he disappears now even though he didn't with his last girlfriend. It also sucks that he seems to act completely different around other people than he does around me. Maybe because the way I act in general is so different from most people.

I think it would be much easier to give out eggs if I had a chance to talk about this with someone I know irl. Right now the lack if that is splitting me between two different social lives. Most of the people I talk to don't even know Yakow, because he talks to completely different types of people from the ones I do.

jeff's picture

Well...

I make puns primarily to amuse myself on here.

In situations like this, the odds of you being able to delineate between what bothers you as far as friendship/crush are pretty small.

If he doesn't know you're into him, and you have no plan to ever tell him, and he has a girlfriend on top of all that, then I'd file it under delusion. Only if you plan to ever mention these things would there be hope. Everyone wants the wordless moment where some greater knowledge floods in and you start making out, but 99.3% of people don't get that experience.

The eggs thing is about you pursuing other social outlets with other people. Make plans with others, hang out with others, etc. If all you do is plan things with Yakow, and think about him, and explore how he acts when he has a girlfriend, and detail their kissing style... you need to disengage and have some plans that don't include or revolve around him.

I wouldn't be looking to find other people with whom you can pontificate about Yakow. You need Yakow-free time to do Yakow-devoid things with people who are not Yakow.

---
"You don't know you're beautiful." - Harry Styles

anarchist's picture

Well I already do that.

I have friends apart from Yakow, obviously. I talk to them a lot more than I talk to him (the concert was an example), but the reason this is bothering me so much is because I have to keep it secret due to the lack of opportunity to share my feelings. I would have solved this by now, but somehow every plan I make is somehow ruined by uncontrollable circumstances, like blown transmissions, bronchitis, and parents. This keeps happening. As for all the stuff you mentioned that I shouldn't be doing, I rarely do my homework, so I have a fuckton of free time and this place exists only to express what I can't express with people irl. I obviously seem like I think about nothing else here because the other things that I think about and the other people I talk to are irrelevant to the web site.

jeff's picture

Well...

It is a fair impression to have if I only read what you post here. That said, if you have other friends, and Yakow cancels on you... why sit around mopey all day instead of calling other people and finding something else to do?

---
"You don't know you're beautiful." - Harry Styles

DarkestValley's picture

harsh

harsh

anarchist's picture

That didn't seem too harsh to me.

Not as harsh as Jeff's previous comment, anyway.

jeff's picture

Harshness...

... is a good thing.

I'm much less confrontational on lost causes.

---
"You don't know you're beautiful." - Harry Styles

anarchist's picture

Well, I don't think I replied to part of your post.

Actually forming a romantic relationship was never part of the plan in the beginning, though it may be now. I don't see it happening anytime soon, though. Right now the goal is just to get closer to him and get to know him better, which is going pretty well. If the weekend plans work out, that would really bring me forward. I'm lending him a guitar and an amplifier since he's trying to learn, so there's some leverage (for lack of a better word) that I'll have to let the friendship grow. I'm just setting goals and not trying to think too far into the future, since those thoughts only worry me. When I said "have a chance", I didn't mean an immediate one. By that I meant that maybe he'd also be interested when and if it gets to that point. But I'm currently not worrying about it. Friendship comes before more-than-friendship. So there are some more words that may be helpful in your advice.

jeff's picture

Well...

Technically, you're running a risky game, since he doesn't know you like penises. If you wait too long to bring it up, he could (appropriately) question if that was your game all along, or wonder why if he's such a close friend, you never mentioned it to him, etc. Did you want to really want to teach him guitar, or was helping him find a G chord a path to you later finding his G spot?

So, your delaying that piece of information can play in your favor, or very much against it. You say you're not pursuing more than friendship, but of the two of you, you're the only one who knows that's an option.

You can be gay long before he decides to explore such an option for himself, or he may never, but I still think that is an obstacle. Of course, I always think not coming out in some form is an obstacle.

---
"You don't know you're beautiful." - Harry Styles

anarchist's picture

I may have waited too long already.

We've known one another for a whole now, and in that time we've had a lot of conversations. I think it may help me that it took well over a year for my opinion of him to start voyaging outside of the platonic zone. But you're implying that he definitely doesn't feel any of the same emotions with me, and sometimes I really don't know about that assumption. The way his eyes and face look when he talks to me and the way he reacts to some of the things I do seem beyond platonic sometimes. You can say that I'm just being delusional again, but I trust my judgement here.

jeff's picture

Eh...

It is never too late, you just get to spin it differently. Make it that you've never told anyone, and you have been nervous about it, but you really trust him, so you wanted him to know. Then you're boosting his ego at the same time as coming out to him.

Your sexuality has no bearing on his interest. He is either interested in being with a guy with or without you, and one level under that, he is either interested or not in being with you if he is interested in being with guys.

If he is on any non-platonic path with you, you're coming out is waving him in. If he's not, then you also get to close off that option on your end, and start looking for someone else for that side of things, while maintaining a platonic friendship. If anything, it makes the friendship easier, by removing that whole other path.

Of course, life being life, he could say no now, and in two years, you both get drunk at a party and... well, surprise! But better to be have surprise wish fulfillment than ongoing, unfulfilled longing that whole time.

No one has ever lost a true friend by coming out to them. The emphasis there is on true, though.

I wouldn't say you're delusional, but sometimes the penis can influence how the brain interprets what it sees. ;-)

---
"You don't know you're beautiful." - Harry Styles

anarchist's picture

I don't like thinking about the future.

I don't know when I would share this information, or how to bring it up. I've never had a chance to talk about something this personal before, so I have no idea how to create that opportunity. I don't want to "come out" to him, since the current status of that sort of thing is that I openly view everyone as sexual equals, and I could be attracted to an individual regardless of their background or qualities, since saying I'm attracted to half of the entire human species based purely on their reproductive organs is a pretty half-baked statement. But I'm only open about that if someone asks about it. So far, nobody has, and that's because of what I've mentioned at the beginning of the paragraph: I have never spoken about this with someone in a real life conversation. I also don't want to think about how I'm going to stay friends with him in the future if our post-highschool lives end up taking us far apart from one another. Those are even scarier thoughts. I feel like I'm racing time here.

jeff's picture

Well...

I'm not sure how much of your thinking is progressive and half an intellectual argument that allows you to stay closeted, but that's up to you to sort out. I don't think anyone who identifies as heterosexual would think that saying they're "attracted to half of the entire human species based purely on their reproductive organs is a pretty half-baked statement."

It's like being atheist. If God shows up later, you can change your mind. Why make it so important?

As to the future, you don't control it, so why worry about it? If you're friends, you'll sort it out. But either way, you can't control it...

---
"You don't know you're beautiful." - Harry Styles

anarchist's picture

I don't like looking this far into the future with it.

It' just making me sad, and I'd prefer to stay in a good mood about getting to my current goal. The only thing I'm really afraid of is our friendship ending. I don't feel the need to "come out" about any attractions, because none of my attractions feel abnormal at all. They feel completely natural, and you keep trying to convince me that I'm a weirdo and need to make a big deal out of this. It's just horribly unnatural for anyone to force themselves to follow this ritual simply because they happened to develop an attraction for a person who happens to have a certain set of hormones and organs in common with them. It's just an attraction, and I see nothing strange about it.

jeff's picture

Well...

OK, I'm now leaning toward "intellectual argument that allows you to stay closeted."

Abnormal, natural, weirdo, unnatural, force, ritual... that's a lot of loaded words you're introducing into the equation here. Where did I say big deal? You're adding a lot of new concepts to my reply that aren't in there.

But like I said, it's up to you to sort out. I can't make you to do anything.

From my perspective, saying something to a friend is not making a big deal out of something that is "completely natural." Keeping it a secret from them is.

---
"You don't know you're beautiful." - Harry Styles

anarchist's picture

It is making a big deal out of it.

It's just a random opinion that doesn't need to be brought up, like it's such a huge part of my life. I don't understand how fucking tarded someone would have to be to have this explained to them so many times and so thoroughly and still make up these idiotic conclusions that make no sense. You keep trying to give advice to something you obviously don't understand at all like you're a psychologist. You need to stop bringing up that specific subject and bragging to me about how you ignorantly refuse to try and understand my opinion.

jeff's picture

Then I'll stop...

In future conversations, when I stop replying, just assume we've hit the point where I'm going to start talking about coming out, closets, etc.

---
"You don't know you're beautiful." - Harry Styles

Perhaps We Should Leave's picture

Hey dude

Calm down, dude, it's not worth getting agitated. :-/ If it helps, I do actually agree with you in part. I personally don't bother trying to fit myself into a label, and while I've dated primarily men for the past several years, I don't consider myself straight. I personally like to describe my sexual and romantic orientations as z-axis orientations, but that's a personal thing. If you don't care to label yourself, that's totally cool; not everyone understands the idea of not bothering to do that. I get called 'bisexual' a lot, even though I try to explain to people that neither that nor pansexual are words I like. People are gonna try to tell you what you are. It's not very cool of them, but it's not something that needs to become a shouting match.

I would, though, like to point out that it's also not very nice to say things that could be interpreted as insulting people who do use labels. Some people really do feel that they're necessary for themselves, and if you want people to respect your lack, you should respect their labels.

I'm not saying this confrontational-wise, by the way (which is unlike my usual manner, I know); I really do understand where you're coming from.

(also tarded is kind-of an uncool word, too. just a note.)

* * *

“HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE YOU SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE." - AM

anarchist's picture

I don't have communication with most people for one.

I normally plan these things out in person, since people usually aren't available spontaneously (because they also plan things out in person). In retrospect, I should have just switched the two plans from last weekend around when the Saturday one was cancelled. I was considering that, but I don't really remember why I didn't do so. I think by the time I thought of it, it was already around 1PM and I would have liked to get an earlier start on making tunes.

anarchist's picture

I want to ask you a question about this.

With these types of people who devote themselves almost entirely to their romantic relationships, does that ever fade after a while, or is it like usually that through the entire relationship? Or does it vary entirely?

jeff's picture

Well...

I can only speak to the one friend who does this, but it is for the entire relationship. From dating through coupledom through marriage, it has been the same without changing.

I am judging this across many relationships and a nearly 20 year period, btw.

---
"You don't know you're beautiful." - Harry Styles

Perhaps We Should Leave's picture

In my experience

This sort of thing lasts a while. Sometimes it mellows a tiny bit after the puppy love stage, but not always. At this point in a person's life, I expect it may have more to do with the puppy love. Which may or may not fade. So yeah, if you really want it to end, the best way to fix it is to find a way to split them up. Mind you, I'm not encouraging that idea, simply pointing out that the only sure end is the end of the relationship. Of course, if they found out you manipulate the end of a relationship, they might not like you anymore. So there are pros and cons.

* * *

“HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE YOU SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE." - AM

angel syndrome's picture

In my experience

In my current relationship, there was a huge necessity for me to be present and around for my boyfriend (because of his addiction, lack of other support, ect.) Now that we've begun putting that in the past, I moved out of his apartment, we see each other less, I spend more time doing individual projects/things with other people, as has he.

It's more of a flux: it really depends on the communication in the relationship, identifying if it's a problem for either partner, and seeing from what both people want to do.

If I look back to my relationships when I was 17-18, I was always overly attached to my significant other, left them very little space, and made very little space for the other people in my life around me: which is more because I was approaching relationships in an unhealthy way.

Things change, people change: nothing is really all that fixed.

anarchist's picture

I think she's the one who's like that, actually.

It seems like she's just always with him, and gets him to go with her everywhere, but when they're in conversation, she's the one who also talks to other people. I know that sounds weird, but it also is weird. Before they were officially together, he would be in conversation with me and she'd always be the one to start talking to him, and she's the one who starts conversations with him. I think the thing is that he's just not much of a dominant person, and he's fine with other people making decisions for him. He usually isn't the one to start a conversation, and usually leaves that to the other person. I'm not even a dominant person myself, but he's really forced me to act more that I was used to.